George W. Bush:A Dictator in the making or a President with a noble cause?

Originally posted by crisko
Wrong, only Texas can leave the Union leagally.

That's up for debate. It was, and still is, being debated.
From what I've read, I DO think states have a right to leave.
But this is a topic for a different thread ... perhaps I'll start it.

Originally posted by Heartagram
I don't see the point in enforcing your ideas unto others?

The 45 nations didn't enforce our ideas on others. We brought
liberty. Did you see the Iraqis dancing for joy in the streets that
April day ... or did the news where you are delete that from your
TV screens for fear that you'd see the truth which is that the
Iraqi people WANTED us to come and WANTED Saddam gone.
As soon as they had a voice for themselves, they criticized France
and Germany for not joining in the coalition to end the torture
and death.

doesn't give you the right to invade another country
and doing what is best for them.

It's the obligation of more well off countries to stop mass
murder and torture of the helpless. It's an OBLIGATION.
Just as the entire world is coming together to bring relief to
the Tsunami victims. It's a moral OBLIGATION. By your way
of thinking ... we shouldn't do what is best for Indonesia
... we shouldn't give Tsunami relief because we shouldn't do
what is best for them because they are a foreign country and
we should leave the survivors to their sickness and misery
instead of coming in with $$$, food, medicine and HOPE.

Let them do their job it's their own country.

I wish they could. The people were not capable of doing it.

Freedom is just freedom. Freedom doesn't provide
you with food neither it assures them another psychotic
madman like Saddam would take over and reliving those
horrible days of Saddam.

Don't underestimate Freedom. Freedom from Saddam certainly
IS providing food and medicine for the Iraqis. They no longer
have Saddam stealing their billions of $$$ through the UN
Oil for Food program. The Iraqis are finally getting their oil
money. Freedom has brought them this. And even though
Freedom today doesn't garuntee protection from another
Saddam someday, that doesn't mean that you deny the
Iraqis their freedom today. To say to them that they don't
deserve freedom because someday there may or may not
be another Saddam .... that doesn't make sence.

I understand your desire to see the Iraqis do it themselves.
That is also probably the desire of every American and everyone
in the Coalition of the Willing. The fact remains that the Iraqis
couldn't do it themselves, even though they wanted to. They
now have freedom, which they wanted and they are very happy
with it.

u dont understand flyer, there is no such thing as a liberator people free themselves.....if people are truly opressed they will do something about and we had no right to invade iraq to get oil, freedom my ass.......

but back to the topic.....i think if we can make it through bushes second term and live we will be fine..... although bush is a tryant....

Flyer, Are you saying it is alright for bush to "flip-flop". You just used that to defend bush when I'm willing to bet you used it to degrade kerry. And what you said about Abe, he might have switched the reason but he didn't make anything up to start the war!!!

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by crisko
Wrong, only Texas can leave the Union leagally.

That's up for debate. It was, and still is, being debated.
From what I've read, I DO think states have a right to leave.
But this is a topic for a different thread ... perhaps I'll start it.

If a state tried to forcefully secede, I believe we'd see another Waco incident, only on a much larger scale.

FlyersFan,do you see the amount of anti-American and the rejection of democracy is rising in Iraq?Why liberate them when you know such country with theocracy as their political foundation wouldn't accept western ideology of any sort?Or is this just an excuse to be able to control the oil in the middle east?

Source:
Democracy rejected
news.bbc.co.uk...

The source above shows the disunity in the Iraq state and many other interesting news.It also shows Saudi Arabia's concern about Iraq's future.

More news about the future of Iraq:
Confidence in Iraq's future slips
www.military.com...

Optimism of Bush supporters declining about Iraq's future.

Tsunami is a different thing FlyersFan,it's a man-made disaster.Do you see the difference between Iraq and the Tsunami disaster.In Iraq there is someone the Iraqis can fight and liberate themselves against(i.e Saddam Hussein),we have no right to intervened directly although it's your OBLIGATION to do so.In the Tsunami disaster there is no aggressor,only mother nature.In the Tsunami situation it is then logical to help.

Anyways,I've found an website(at the bottom of my post) that tells us about an Iraq Conspiracy.All in the favour of knowing the truth,go on and read the article.This shows Bush's real agenda.All the reliable sources are at the bottom of the page.

Source:
deoxy.org...

Man With A Mission

I choose Option 1. I think he is a true believer.

I do not think he is a saint, and I find many elements of his agenda disturbing.

What I do not see, however, is a dictator in the making.

The overwhelming percentage of allegations I have seen made against this president are made by people I wouldn't trust to give me the time of day, let alone take political advice from.

They earn my distrust by posting lies, defamation and insults, and all those tell me is that those people are not to be trusted.

However, what their absurd charges are successful at doing is obscuring the real things Bush is doing wrong.

So basically, all those anti-Bush cultists are running cover for him. How ironic.

How To Lose In Politics: Misunderestimate Your Opponent

Just like Lincoln did, Bush uses the gullibility of his critics to manipulate them right where he wants them.

He nuked the Democrats in Texas, and now he's nuking the Democrats nationwide.

I think he has too much power, but if the Democrats are going to fail to oppose him competently and offer something better, there really isn't much choice.

And insulting those of us who want to see them succeed instead of allow a one-party system to establish itself in America is a recipe for failure.

I and anyone with his head screwed on straight will never vote Democrat as long as they continue to publicly insult us and call us idiots.

Only an idiot would vote for someone who calls him an idiot.

So if the Democrats grow the frick up, stop being such jackasses, dump that gawdawful Marxist dogma and build a party that is actually competent to lead this country, then maybe I'll vote for them.

But not a day sooner.

I see your opinion is with Bush,Majic.

Yes,I first thought the same way as you do.The moment I was able to think and understand news on the tv or radio,I usually heard news of how the Americans have liberate lots and lots of country.Noble of them to do so,this is my initial comment on the U.S.Yet,soon enough I've found flaws in what they're doing and especially when Bush takes office,everthing became worse.Questions such as the WMD remained unanswer.I find it very strange they kept such a low profile on that issue.

With Bush, But I Wish I Had A Better Choice

Originally posted by Heartagram
I see your opinion is with Bush,Majic.

I voted for him, but I'm not happy that I had to, to be blunt about it.

If the Democrats hadn't gone down the tubes like they have, and if they would have given me an alternative I could stomach, I might have chosen it.

I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I vote for what I consider to be the best interests of the country.

Currently, I think the Republicans have a better plan because they have a plan.

All I hear from the Democrats is whining and oppositional behavior that would be shameful for a 2-year-old. Then when I criticize that, they insult me and call me an idiot.

Why would anyone vote for people like that?

I think the Democrats need to take a long hard look in the mirror, stop acting like spoiled little brats and give me a voting choice I can live with.

That's my message, and I hope they get the damn memo, because the Republicans are really getting on my nerves these days, and we need someone who can actually run the country with some degree of competency if we are ever going to avoid a Republican oligarchy.

Democrats: Heed my warning well, or get used to playing second fiddle for a long time.

And stop lying to me, dammit.

I'm tired of being insulted by second-rate politicians and their groupies.

Yeah,I would understand why you would pick Bush.Better one with a plan than one that blabbers but with no plan at all.

Anyways,I never liked the game of politics.However,nobody can runaway from politics and this Bush is playing a deadly and misleading game with politics.One day it'll bite him on his hairy *ss.

Number 1 or 2 does not fit the big picture. Let' look at the issue at hand. Due to 9/11 the US needed to make a strong statement and did do so. I think any President and his administration would have done something to make a bold statement. So, on that point I say good job Bush.
Soon thereafter we hear of WMD and Sadam's intent to use them on his neighbors and others. After the "intelligance" is in Bush convinces congress to let him go and get those WMD. A "coalition of the willing" is formed to aid the US in it's efforts. Not everyone belives Bush is doing the right thing as many countries want a different soultion to this. Interesting to note is the fact that the "coalition of the willing" is actually a very small number with the US being the most "willing".
With no WMD found the switch to freedom for Iraqis becomes the new slogan. While it is a good thing to want to help people with freedom you really have to question Bush at this time. Now if Bush was not president but someone else, I might have a better time believing all of this is for the greater good. Bush, IMHO, is a moron. I have never felt this way about any president but I do about Bush. Some say he has trouble speaking clearly about a subject but he was once a lead debator or president of his college debate team was he not, hmm... Who can forget such timeless classics as "tribal sovereignty" or OGYNs and practicing their love on women.
If I were to label Bush I would have to say "Genius Moron"
Why? This is due to the fact that even though Bush has spent more money and brought to the fore front more US enemies as well as making several mistakes he is still genuinely liked by the American people.
The US was built upon the rock of democracy and GOD. Yes that's right GOD. George W. knows this and uses it to his advantage. Like so many americans today he posses a "form of Godliness but denies the power thereof".
In his last term as president I fear a rough road is ahead for us Americans.
I do believe that we need to act on terrorism and the problems that face our country, just not neccessarily the way Bush has been going about it.
What I truly pray for is a US that returns to it's core values. A president that holds those core values would be the icing on the cake.
What does the US need to do in order to get this done? Elect a President that is worthy of the title. This task is not an easy one though and here is why. American's are, as a whole, a nation of "MEs". We have to stop thinking of ourselves so highly and return to core values. For most American's this is a daunting a task. Yes we give big to charities and try to help people all over the world but we forget so many times our neighbor who is in need. It's sad to see someone pass over his neighbor in need yet give to a stranger halfway across the world out of that same pocket.
I challenge each and every American to dig deep and pluck out all that is wrong in them and get back to basics. I love my country and we have done more to help the world than any other so let's re-examine ourselves and make things better one at a time. If we do this our American culture as a whole will change and with it will come Godly leaders that can truly do great things. It's not too late fellow Americans. Let's show the world what it's all about.
John 3:16

Pretzel Logic

Originally posted by indano
Bush, IMHO, is a moron.

Here's why I can't agree with this sort of thinking.

It is inherently wrong, and in fact, cannot even be logically right.

If you are right, and Bush is a moron, then his opponents were defeated by a moron. To vote for someone stupid enough to lose to a moron is to vote for someone stupider than a moron.

If you are wrong, then you are lying about this man, slandering him falsely. That would make you a liar, and if you lie to me about one thing, you'll sure as hell lie to me about anything else you want to lie about.

So I would then be a fool to believe you.

And there's the problem. You're not only wrong to hold this view, but you cannot even possibly be right.

What you're telling me doesn't make sense any way I look at it, so why should I agree with you?

I recommend giving some more thought to the matter.

Majic,
You assume that I am wrong when I say Bush is a moron. What if I am correct in saying so? Also, is it really so hard to believe that there could be someone in the white house that is not the brightest star in the universe? When I say he is a moron I mean by his words and actions he portarys himself as such. Here are a few examples...
www.littlemidgets.com...
www.littlemidgets.com...
www.littlemidgets.com...

You are saying what I said doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it which is fine as you are defintely entitled to your opinion. You also do not have to agree with me. This is another benefit of freedom. I emplore you to llook at things a little closer yourself to see if you can come to the same conclusion I have come to. With all that Bush has said and done as well as not done I can only see him in a negative light.
If you do not come to the same conclusion then that is fine. It just goes to show that not everyone believes Bush is doing things wrong. I do not understand how anyone can see Bush as doing the right things but then again I am sure others cannot see him doing things wrong.

I believe that Majic's point was that if Bush IS a moron, then that makes the Democrats incredibly pathetic because they're so incompetent that they're losing to a moron, and thus the argument that Bush is a moron doesn't automatically make the opposition party a better choice.

If comparing the democratic party to Bush is what we are talking about then yes they are worse in the fact they could not defeat Bush. No one party seems to have the best answers to the questions that face America. The American people voted for Bush again because they felt that he was doing the best for them. Something I do not agree with but freedom to vote for who you want is a cornerstone of deomcracy.
Bush states he wants to spread democracy. Great! Let's go to Darfur and other regions of the planet where it is truly needed. Why are we not there now? Troubling questions indeed.
To sum it all up though, things are the way they are because that is the way they are. We are headed to one culmination point and as such things set in motion will continue in that motion until complete.

the dems may have lost but bush is still a heartless moronic tyrant who brain washes christian followers to aid his hellish cause

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by crisko
Wrong, only Texas can leave the Union leagally.

That's up for debate. It was, and still is, being debated.
From what I've read, I DO think states have a right to leave.
But this is a topic for a different thread ... perhaps I'll start it.

actually, since the second the patriot act was passed, under the origional constitution, we ALL have the right to militia up right now.
that is NOT open for debate.

i should start a militia.yo guys are conservative brainwashed mindless sensless whores for bush.im tellin you hes the manchurian candidate and well he won is a weak argument considering how dumb and obese and conceited americans are.most of em sit in pools of their own feces kissing the troops butts and spewing out 100 percent usda approved american supporting bull.

There's no doubt that when it comes down to speaking or debating,Bush is definitely bad at it.I watched the debate between Bushy and Kerry-me.Bush isn't really fluent when it comes down to it and being the U.S president shouldn't charismatic be his strong point?I saw none of that.

Besides,I guess most Americans viewed Bush as the only candidate that is best for them right now.Though I don't get the idea why the hell they would allow them do such invasions.Well,I guess none of the Americans are standing up and speaking out.

"Don't waste your time on Bush,he's already the voice inside your head".

I would say Bush is both a President and a Dictator, he is whatever is needed at a particular time to fulfill a particular agenda...
Our world is controlled by Money.
Lets say for arguments sake you were one of the richest people in the world. You have everything money can buy. What's left?
POWER. Power over what? People? Yes, but more specifically populations.
With wealth and power comes paranoia. Fear of losing that wealth and power is overwhelming.
For example have you ever been poorer than you are now? I would say most of us have. But you got by right? Now you have more than you did, how do feel about going back to what you had before? Scary thought right?
OK back to the agenda....
Bush and his government, or any government, are at the mercy of the wealthiest few. The governments job is to appease those wealthy few.
To appose anything that threatens that wealth and power. To control the population from threatening that wealth and power. And to keep the population, who creates that wealth and power that is stolen by the few, from realizing the truth.
But like I said when you have unlimited wealth then the next challenge is control. You want to shape the world in your view, who wouldn't?
Money and power is like a drug, better than heroin. They'll do anything to maintain their fix, including killing their own to maintain and advance their wealth and power.
Don't be fooled, government is not there for your benefit, it's there to maintain the power and control for the wealthy. Because wealth and power is only legitimate if we accept it.
The only freedom we have is the freedom to be rich, a goal unreachable by most. How free are you?