Officials: US agrees to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Xcathdra

So you cant support your position... not surprising since no Russian apologists can seem to support their false claims

Keep you xenephobia if you need to. It makes you happy and makes you feel secure and worthy inside. Really boring with the Russian stuff. Be more creative.

That "xenophobia" sounds just as stupid when Putin uses it.

Also your hypocrisy is sad. Nothing like trying to claim a moral high ground when you engage in the very same behavior you take exception to.

I will leave you with your Ukraine nazi propaganda bias.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Ukraine needs to keep out of NATO interference if Moscow is going to leave it alone. You need to see it from both sides really, sure some are brainwashed into wanting EU overlords but to Russia that is akin to handing over more territory to the Germans who it originally had to lose 30 million people to defend itself. Ukraine is a buffer state and needs to remain so as it will always attract interference by Moscow if EU/NATO attempt to take it into their sphere. Russia has had a bad time with interfering westerners mass murdering its population over the past couple of generations. Don't poke the bear

And Russia in retaliation will now start selling weapons to insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan....

The cycle of proxy war continuing.


No one will win. Except American and Russian arm dealers.

Javelin touts fire and forget. Shoot. Fire. Evade. But range is short. Kornet is not fire and forget, but has longer range, and highly accurate laser riding guidance, and in addition the vehicle fired version has auto tracker similar to TOW ITAS which entered service in 1998 after Javelin did in 1996. Both have day and thermal sights. Both are 152 mm and built in the hundreds of thousands. Thanks Earth for all the plentiful raw materials.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

$5 billion dollars spent over the previous decade by the US to fund soft power projects that fuelled the coup in Ukraine.

Such is the way.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So you feel that the people of Ukraine should not be allowed to determine their own future. In other words you don't believe they are a sovereign state.

a reply to: midicon

I'd need to go back and check my research to see if that $5 billion number is even right. Regardless though, the money you're referring to is money that came through USAID. It helps provide funding for many NGOs throughout the world. For example, I know some of that money went to building schools. It had nothing to do with this "coup" the Putinistas keep claiming happened.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

The fact that you feel need to use the term ' Putinista' says much about your mind set. I have never come across one but I suppose it is a useful term of disparagement towards anyone with a different perspective. Silly really.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Don't poke the bear

Poor old Russia. Even their old "friends" don't trust them. Ukraine's mistake was that they decided to shift their focus from the old corrupt Russia to the richer and freer West. They compared themselves to the other ex-Soviet vassals who have aligned to the West and stamped out corruption and got richer. They saw that staying with Russia was just the same-old-same-old story of stagnation and corruption. It was a mistake because Russia is obsessed with a having servile states to act as a "!buffer zone£ to progress. Like telling a child they cannot have the sweets, Russia had a tantrum. Just like they did in Georgia.

The Bear is a myth. A construct of that attempts to portray toughness. All it portrays is brutishness and bullying.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

So you feel that the people of Ukraine should not be allowed to determine their own future. In other words you don't believe they are a sovereign state.

But that's how the west got its teeth into eastern Europe and forced the Russian hand. Remember you can create new wars anywhere on Planet Earth by filling the locality with Made in USA offensive weapons but you can not change the geographic location. Ukraine is Russia's neighbour and will always be a cause for concern for Russia, by pushing weapons on the western backed Porky regime it ain't going to go down well in Moscow when Russian speakers get murdered by American weapons. They will bite back but that's probably what the agencies want? Madness total madness, there was a general peace before Ukraine was hijacked by the west. Now Russia a military and nuclear superpower is being baited and that's flipping madness whether you realise it or not?

a reply to: paraphi

The west tried it in Syria and Iraq by backing insurgents, unfortunately that failed but hey ho the localities ancient Christian communities Yazidi's etc going back to the time of JC (when we were still pagans) have been wiped out in a holocaust as a direct result of sending in military trainers and made in the west offensive weapons to give to 'freedom fighters' and what for? A holocaust of Christians on our governments hands. At least Russia stepped in and saved the day. Now can they protect the eastern Europe from a similar NATO / western plot to take out more lands. A modern day conference of Berlin is needed so the superpowers get their own domains and an understanding is created. There is every chance that by pushing Russia over its near abroad a conflict might arise and China and Russia combined are no towel heads running around in the desert. This will be the end for all of us if the west don't stop pushing against them as the use of nukes will be inevitable.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: midicon

I'd need to go back and check my research to see if that $5 billion number is even right. Regardless though, the money you're referring to is money that came through USAID. It helps provide funding for many NGOs throughout the world. For example, I know some of that money went to building schools. It had nothing to do with this "coup" the Putinistas keep claiming happened.

The 5 billion number is accurate except the part people lave out is the number is the total amount of aid provided to Ukraine since their independence from Russian / Soviet occupation.

People try and pass the 5 billion off as some sort of covert fund by the west that helped overthrow Yanukovych. Typical Russian propaganda bs that is repeated by people with more ignorance than intelligence.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I too would throw Ukraine under the bus if that was the only way to avoid nuclear war, but is it really? Conceding Crimea would not satisfy the Russian elite for good, there will be other points of contention and we can't just submissively roll over. And at the same time Putin isn't the war-mongering madman you paint him as. He won't start a nuclear war over Ukraine.

Remember that Ukraine is not only Russia's near abroad, it is near to the European states too and they should be concerned that Russia is fighting a war so near to them. It sets a dangerous precedent.

a reply to: Theprodicalson

Wars have winners as well as loosers, otherwise no one would bother to fight them. It sure would be strange though, for Russia to fund insurgents just out of spite. I'd give them more credit than that.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Conceding Crimea would not satisfy the Russian elite for good, there will be other points of contention and we can't just submissively roll over.

Conceding Crimea? What as if there is a decision to be cast on this? Crimea is run by Moscow and has always been run by Moscow. They aren't going to give it away now. It's like USA giving away Hawaii or the UK giving up on the Falklands, Sevastopol means the same to trussia. Forget the idea of toying with conceding it or not, it's Russian. This sort of confusion is just the same as Jerusalem not being the capital of Israel. It is, they aren't going to give it away now, it's a done deal whether foreigners recognise it or not.

The west has no business in meddling in Russia's near abroad. All it can do is lead to conflict. The superpowers USA, Russia and China all need to get down to a major conference and rattle it out on spheres of influence and pull back from playing games and proxy wars. A respect for each other is rapidly required if we are to avoid a serious confrontation where millions may ultimately be killed.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Theprodicalson

Wars have winners as well as loosers, otherwise no one would bother to fight them. It sure would be strange though, for Russia to fund insurgents just out of spite. I'd give them more credit than that.

Then you give russia too much credit.


USA, Britain , Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia will fund proxy wars.
1) for money.
2) out of spite. Look at the entire cold war, it was a series of # yous between Russia and the USA.


As for lossers?

Yeah there are lossers. The local population of whatever country the proxy war is fought in.
The super powers win in either way in money and prestige.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The west has no business in meddling in Russia's near abroad.

Russia has no business meddling in other countries. Ukraine does not belong to Russia, nor does Georgia. This whole obsession with Russia's "buffer" of subservient vassals is the politics of yesterday. Russia directly borders the developed world in the Baltic.

Only Russian apologists think that invading and occupying Crimea was a harmless act. No one else does.

Most cornered leaderships will go down fighting because human nature is foolish. Russia is in the wrong, and I'm not confident they will get wiser. Everybody is meddling, but not everyone has weight behind their actions. Russia needs to look at examples in the past of leadership which lost benefit of the doubt. Regardless of the truth of the matter, if a leadership is deemed to lose it then ultimate elimination of that leadership is on the table.

originally posted by: paraphi
Russia has no business meddling in other countries. Ukraine does not belong to Russia, nor does Georgia.

That's from your point of view. If you are sitting in Russia and have been encircled by NATO forces and watched friendly states have their leadership toppled by western orchestrated coups plus horrible sanctions placed against your state then you just might see it differently. This after being under attack for 100 years from the same old western states that have sought to destroy Russia one way or another.

Nobody meddles in other countries like the west, especially the English speaking ones. We have the blood of hundreds of millions of foreigners on our hands over the centuries due to our colonial wars and settlement effects, indeed even recently we have murdered millions of arabs in Middle East wars and left power vacuums that have unleashed a terror on them that has led to the elimination of Christianity from much of its home in the near east.

What Russia has done in self defence pales in comparison with our meddling in other countries.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The west has no business in meddling in Russia's near abroad.

Russia has no business meddling in other countries. Ukraine does not belong to Russia, nor does Georgia. This whole obsession with Russia's "buffer" of subservient vassals is the politics of yesterday. Russia directly borders the developed world in the Baltic.

Only Russian apologists think that invading and occupying Crimea was a harmless act. No one else does.

In all honesty, Khruschev never should have given Crimea from Russia to Ukraine. But what is done is done. The past cannot be altered. It is a good thing the return of Crimea to Russia was bloodless.