Officials: US agrees to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: Xcathdra

This should have happened a long time ago when Russia first invaded / occupied Ukraine territory.

When will you stop with this crap. There was no invasion.

Russia had / has a very big military base there so no invasion happened.

So you are happy that the government overthrow by the CIA was successful and now they BUY more and more arms.

How many countries is it now? You are blinded by your government.

P

have u ever talked to a ukrainian? they have been persecuted by the russians for a very long time and have suffered many atrocities. i have a guy i hire occasionally when i need help and the stories he tells of what its been like there for decades is terrifying.

decades, you say.
atrocities, you say.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

ukrainians living in the western ukraine consider that motherf... a national hero.
A HERO.
if there's one place on this world where nazis live, it's ukraine.

and you're DEFENDING them?

don't get me wrong. i feel sorry for the normal, kind people that live there - because there certainly are some, i've met some ukrainians myself. but sadly, a huge part of that nation, and especially their leadership, should just sink in their own goddamn mess, and the west should stay the f... out of it.

it's a bomb, and the USA just armed it.

a reply to: muSSang

USA and Russia probably working this one together. A way to get influence split it between them then they both get a share like Molotov Rippontopp 80 years ago split the state of Ukraine between them everyone's a winner lol bar the Ukraine

a reply to: Xcathdra

When a foreign country, say Russia, sends in its military nits into a sovereign nation without their consent and proceeds to seize territory it is in fact an invasion.

like Sryia, Afganistan and Iraq. Stop with your war mongering. You have forgotten who you are.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Officials: US agrees to provide lethal weapons to Ukraine

Click link for article..

All I can say is its about time.

This should have happened a long time ago when Russia first invaded / occupied Ukraine territory.

I'll tell you something ... I think russians are whooss, because if I were the russians I'd have rolled over Ukraine by now, and nuked it ... literally.

The entire world, is upside down ... the Nazis, are suddenly jewish, fascist are suddenly liberals, tyrants are at the helm of "freedom", saudi arabia is the head of "human rights".

So *burp*, yo mama ... the world is fubar when the Russians are the good guys, because Russians don't care about the world and aren't here to save anyone.

Now, that's F.Up

a reply to: jedi_hamster

And some Russians consider Stalin a hero.

a reply to: purplemer

Maybe the US needs to stop messing around in the middle east, but that doesn't make it wrong to help the Ukrainians defend themselves. Stop with your whataboutism instead.

a reply to: justwokeup

The difference being Russian forces are engaged in direct combat.

So, again, its not a civil war.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Xcathdra

When a foreign country, say Russia, sends in its military nits into a sovereign nation without their consent and proceeds to seize territory it is in fact an invasion.

like Sryia, Afganistan and Iraq. Stop with your war mongering. You have forgotten who you are.

Syria - invited in and approved by the Assad government so long as ISIS is the main target.
Afghanistan - Article V of NATO invoked when the US was attacked and Afghanistan refused to turn over Bin Laden to the US.
Iraq - You finally got one although Iraq was in violation of a lot of UNSC resolutions.


On the flip side you have the
- Russian invasion / occupation of Georgian territory.
- Russian invasion / occupation of Ukrainian territory.
- Russian invasion / occupation of Moldovan territory.

So maybe stop misleading people and get your facts right.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So maybe stop misleading people and get your facts right.

Well, you should stop misleading people as well ...

I don't care who invaded who ... Russia, US, Israel ... the Palestinians aren't "hellenian settlers", and have no right based on that. Jews aren't Santa's Elves, and have no right based on that. And people who argue that Santa Clause exists, wether they want to call him Yahweh, God or Allah, and argue as that being a fact. Aren't anything, but demented.

But, Ukranians voicing "hatred" against Russians, and flagging nazi flags most certainly gives the right to roll over them, with a bulldozer. Just as it does, with the palestinians.

So, the US deciding to give weapons to Ukraine is nothing more, or less ... than promoting "conflict".

Yet the idiot liberals never care to mull over evidence that the US is in fact been at economic war with Russia since2006,NWO BS and with all the evidence it still goes on,China is who is in place for a takeover,NK seems like a chess piece with China doing the moves

a reply to: bjarneorn

Repeating Russian propaganda as fact seems to be a problem on this site. Ukraine has done no such thing to Russia and Russia has lied time and time again about the Nazi bs. As for voicing "hatred against Russians", if you did some research, you would see Russia used the exact same lie in Georgia.

So yeah - stop misleading people by repeating debunked Russian propaganda.

As for promoting conflict please explain how the 2 regions in Ukraine under Russian occupation managed to field an army with tanks and artillery larger than some European armies?

The weapons level the playing field allowing Ukraine to defend itself against Russian aggression.

Another day, another LalaTrumpland-"U"S stupidity.
Another day, another destablisiation, another warmongering, another creating chaos on earth.

It is not enough for that military junta to destabilize Europe via "U"S created refugee streams from the middle east. No, it has to add fuel to every fire on earth, like in eastern europe with supporting Neonazi terrorists and rightwinger governments. The only thing these new partners of the "U"S(quality of your "friends and partners" is rising, isn´t it...) have to do to be supported is being rightwing and russia hating.

Just because it is fearful of a united and strong Europe(not a EU, a EUROPE). That`s why the "U"S is undermining german -russian relationships since more than 100 years:


We all know what the "U"S(government, i always critize the rich rulers, the government/oligarchy/plutocracy/military junta if i say "U"SA, not the around 50% of still sane and nice people of the "U"SA!!!) thinks about Europe or the EU anyway, if it comes to "U"S interests:


"U"S oligarchs wanted a bit of the ukraine oligarchy, too. They wanted a bit of the granary of europe, for their Monsantos and DuPonts, for example. And if you create a (civil)warzone, you can sell weapons a lot.And how nice is it if you can put your "U"S puppets into the "ukraine government" too, like Jaresko, for example. Or remember that "U"S puppet and clown Arseni „Jaz“(better Naz, like Nazi!) Jazenjuk...

Much nicer is if you can kill two birds with one stone, if all that happens in Europe, at the border to russia.

That russia that has the chutzpah to touch the"U"S/NATO external borders with it´s territory. That has the chutzpah to react if getting slowly surrounded by the obvious enemy, with military defense exercises on own territory or missile defense, on own territory. On own territory! Not in Mexico or on Cuba, for example!

Now the world can even prove that russia got fooled with the german reunification, with the promises that were made towards russia:

Baker assured Gorbachev that “neither the President nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understood that “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

Those beings responsible for the actions of the "U"S in the world, do they really think that nobody can see which ugly game is played, since decades, by the west under the order of the "U"SA?

And how dangerous and destructive this is, for the whole world and it´s people? "Your own" worldwide spying machine, the internet, broke your neck. A bit. But the Trump reign did the rest, now you are isolated with your last and some new "best friends", like these east european neonazi miniature states that only want revenge, that only want gain vengeance upon russia, for the USSR times. And need the NATO, the "U"S military and "U"S Dollars to do so. Stop giving them money, weapons and empty promises, and you will see how many "friends and partners" you really will have left on earth! Same for Israel! Stop buying or blackmailing your "friends and partners" to be your "friends and partners" and we will see how many "friends and partners" of the "U"S are left worldwide, in reality!

And with such actions like adding fuel to every fire you can spot on earth, which you mostly ignited by yourself, your friends and partners will not get more! The pre-internet times are too long ago, that Hollywood made "The "U"S is the nice guy and saviour" propaganda doesn´t work anymore. The internet and puppets like Trump ripped the mask of your ugly face that was hidden under that Mr Nice Guy mask. We all can see that warmongering and destructive "illuminati-evil corporations-big brother-lizard" face now and will never forget how it in reality looks!

Don´t behave like a heavily wounded wild dog that bites everybody and everything around him while slowly dying, even if it are maybe helping hands! Realize that the golden ages of the anglo-american-israelian empire are over and don´t destroy the whole world while going down the drain!

Would be a nice gift for winter solstice!

a reply to: DerBeobachter

The ability to provide those weapons came curteous of the Obama Administration, which is when Congress drafted, passed and Obama signed it into law.

As for NATO and expansion the agreement was NATO would not place any forces in E. Germany (with the exception of units stationed in West Berlin). There never was any agreement for NATO not to expand East beyond Germany.

Gorbachev interview - Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls

The question posed

RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”

Gorbachev's answer

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naïve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naïveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.

The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statement and assurances made to us in 1990. With regards to Germany, they were legally enshrined and are being observed.

Gorbachev seems to disagree with the "declassified documents" in that what those documents were discussing were made in context to E. Germany and NATO placing troops there.

There never was an agreement for NATO not to expand past Germany to the east. I highlight the last part to reinforce that Gorbachev never discussed NATO expansion and NATO never discussed it with Gorbachev with the sole exception of E. Germany, You cant make an argument out of spirit of what was said if you admit you never asked.

Secondly a sovereign nation has a right under their own laws as well as the UN charter to determine its own course, which includes who they make alliances with. Russia nor the US have a veto over another countries sovereignty.

The interview above is from 2014 and the "spirit" comment developed with Putin and not Gorbachev. Gorbachev had to tow the party line after his previous comments pissed off Putin. this was when Putin went on his the greatest crime of the 20th century "was the collapse of the Soviet Union" diatribes. Around the same time Putin tried to argue that the 3 Baltic countries were in fact still a part of Russia and were not sovereign.

Putin Sets His Sights on the Baltic States

Russia’s Prosecutor General’s Office has launched an improbable but nonetheless outrageous investigation into the legality of the independence of the three Baltic countries (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania).

Ukraine is a sovereign nation and as such can make its own decisions.
The US is a sovereign nation and as such can make its own decisions.

That includes weaponry. Just as Syria and Russia did.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Haven't we been over this before?

I pointed it out to you, multiple times actually, that there's no need for Russia to advance any further in Ukraine, as they seized the most important part of it(Crimea). There really isn't any strategic reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, as some of the western mainstream media suggest as a possibility.

I think it's rather obvious that Trump is influenced by the same people Obama was when it comes to military actions abroad, which is disappointing.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Ukraine were in a no win situation when it came to WWII. It came down to them having to choose between the devil they knew and the one they didn't.

The way they saw it is the Nazis hadn't committed genocide against them. So that automatically made them a better choice than the Soviets.

Russia never accepted Khruschev's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954 as a gift. Russians had been planning on taking back Crimea for 60 years before they finally did it. Even if millions of Russians die in war, they will never give up Crimea.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: jedi_hamster

Ukraine were in a no win situation when it came to WWII. It came down to them having to choose between the devil they knew and the one they didn't.

The way they saw it is the Nazis hadn't committed genocide against them. So that automatically made them a better choice than the Soviets.

let me quote, because you obviously didn't read what i've posted.

Villages were torched. Roman Catholic priests were axed or crucified. Churches were burned with all their parishioners. Isolated farms were attacked by gangs carrying pitchforks and kitchen knives. Throats were cut. Pregnant women were bayoneted. Children were cut in two. Men were ambushed in the field and led away. The perpetrators could not determine the province's future. But at least they could determine that it would be a future without Poles.

en.wikipedia.org...

those very few that survived, can't speak about it without going through mental breakdown. in the meantime, ukraine is full of people that consider those events to be a good thing, to this day.

but let me guess, they didn't have a choice then, and they don't have a choice now, right?

here's a bit of advice for ya, educate yourself before aligning yourself with those animals.

and again, i'm not saying all ukrainians are like that - far from it. but when their president in 2010 declared the leader of those butcherers to be a national hero, you know that something is wrong with that nation. later it was annulled, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place - it says plenty about the sentiments there.

This really throws a wrench in the "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative.

Who am I kidding? The sad people who still believe that myth are pot-committed now. There's no going back.

a reply to: Nikola014

and yet Russia is still fighting in E. Ukraine.

Russia is the largest nation on the planet in terms of land total. There is no logical reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, Moldova or Georgia, let alone illegally occupy / annex territory.

The USSR is dead and wont be coming back. Something Putin cant seem to comprehend.

originally posted by: decr422o
Russia never accepted Khruschev's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954 as a gift. Russians had been planning on taking back Crimea for 60 years before they finally did it. Even if millions of Russians die in war, they will never give up Crimea.

Actually Russia did in the Budapest agreement when Russia recognized the borders of Ukraine, which included Crimea as a part of Ukraine. That agreement was signed in 1994, several years after the USSR collapsed.

I thought Trump and Putin were buddies