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No Chemtrails last Tuesday and it was really hot in New Jersey

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posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 09:23 AM
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Everyday I step out of my house and I look up at the sky and think, "look at all the Chemtrails." I've been looking at New Jersey skies my whole life. I don't remember any Chemtrails until around the year 1998-99. Before then the skies just did not have them. I don't think the physics of jet engines have changed that much. I've seen contrails my whole life but the water vapor dissipates. After 1998-99 the contrails stayed forming hazing shroud spanning the whole sky. I once complained about it to a friend of mine and he roasted me as being superstitious idiot and that they were just contrails. But this guy also thinks two jets can bring down 3 buildings in New York City on 9/11.

Anyway, I think there's something to Chemtrails. It's so hard to prove one way or the other. But there are tons of patents on geo-engineering climate change that make it suspicious. Especially the patents on fuel additives are using the exact chemicals people complain about. My bet is there are fuel additives responsible for the Chemtrails. It just may be good old air pollution to save the airlines money by having the fuel additives making the jet engines more fuel efficient. I don't think it's an eugenics effort or anything like that which seems like a red herring disinformation. Maybe the climate change is a much bigger threat than most people realize. And without Chemtrails we would have a disaster and it's kept quiet so people can't protest with the policy or panic. Maybe without the Chemtrails the Northeast would be like Florida all winter long. That alone is financial incentive for cloud seeding.

Anyway, the reason for this thread is last Tuesday, I went outside in the morning and there were no Chemtrails anywhere in the sky. I was thinking, "today is going to be hot day since there are no Chemtrails." It was 57 degrees and really warm!

List of temperatures for December in New Jersey:

www.accuweather.com...

You could argue because it was warm is why all the "contrails" evaporated. That may be the case. As I said, it's hard to prove one way or the other.



On aircraft which fly above 30,000 feet, the temperature can often can get to temperatures below Jet-A's freezing point. For example: at 36,000 feet the standard outside air temperature is -56.5°C (-69.7°F) and is well below Jet-A's freezing point of -40°C/F.Mar 12, 2014


And:



As the pressure gets lower, the temperature decreases. The rate of decrease of temperature with elevation is known as the adiabatic lapse rate, which is approximately 9.8 °C per kilometer (or 5.4 °F per 1000 feet) of altitude.


I'm not smart enough with weather physics to figure out if at 30,000 feet with 32°F, and if ground temperature is 57°F, what would the temperature be at 30,000 feet. I may be smart enough but just lazy. Does anyone with more brains than me know how to answer this?




posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Me and my son were just saying how the jets were actually leaving vapor trails,being it's so cold in So Calif,too cold for me outside



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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No math required. The Aviation Digital Data Service can give you winds and temps at Altitude.

You can select your altitude and forecast on the map.

You can also select observations from airports in different regions.

www.aviationweather.gov...



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:00 AM
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Contrails are real ... chemtrails are not.

Like you said they are so hard to prove, until there is some solid evidence of chemtrails ... they will be contrails



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015


. I don't remember any Chemtrails until around the year 1998-99


and thats all i need to read



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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how are you able to differentiate between contrails and chemtrails? And more importantly, where did you learn what constitutes a chemtrail?



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

I'm not smart enough with weather physics to figure out if at 30,000 feet with 32°F, and if ground temperature is 57°F, what would the temperature be at 30,000 feet. I may be smart enough but just lazy. Does anyone with more brains than me know how to answer this?



For example: at 36,000 feet the standard outside air temperature is -56.5°C (-69.7°F) and is well below Jet-A's freezing point of -40°C/F.

aviation.stackexchange.com...

I used the google



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: dfnj2015


. I don't remember any Chemtrails until around the year 1998-99


and thats all i need to read


What, you don't believe Kris Kardashian?



“Let’s ask ourselves….Why did I see 75 planes spraying white stuff into the sky on my 15 minute drive to work? Who pays for this and why is it happening? Is something being exterminated here? Is that something me? Does this have anything to do with why Honey Bee’s are Dying off really fast. Why are some days normal with no planes spraying and others look like this? Whos is responcible? What effect will this have on our health and our childrens future? WHO THE F#*% THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA? Am I the only one who sees this? [sic]”



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
how are you able to differentiate between contrails and chemtrails? And more importantly, where did you learn what constitutes a chemtrail?


That is kind of the point of this thread. It's not easy to know what is going on. I have seen two planes that appeared to be at the same altitude one trailing and one not.



United States Patent and Trademark Office

1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 – March 1, 1927 – Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 – June 7, 1927 – Electric Heater – Referenced in 3990987
1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 – December 27, 1932 – Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 – October 3, 1933 – Electrical System And Method
1957075 – May 1, 1934 – Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2409201 – October 15, 1946 – Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 – July 18, 1945 – Smoke Screen Generator
2480967 – September 6, 1949 – Aerial Discharge Device
2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather
2582678 – June 15, 1952 – Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes
2591988 – April 8, 1952 – Production of TiO2 Pigments – Referenced in 3899144
2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture
2633455 – March 31, 1953 – Smoke Generator
2688069 – August 31, 1954 – Steam Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2721495 – October 25, 1955 – Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere
2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device
2801322 – July 30, 1957 – Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel – Referenced in 3990987
2881335 – April 7, 1959 – Generation of Electrical Fields
2908442 – October 13, 1959 – Method For Dispersing Natural Atmospheric Fogs And Clouds
2986360 – May 30, 1962 – Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device
2963975 – December 13, 1960 – Cloud Seeding Carbon Dioxide Bullet
3126155 – March 24, 1964 – Silver Iodide Cloud Seeding Generator – Referenced in 3990987
3127107 – March 31, 1964 – Generation of Ice-Nucleating Crystals
3131131 – April 28, 1964 – Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions
3174150 – March 16, 1965 – Self-Focusing Antenna System
3234357 – February 8, 1966 – Electrically Heated Smoke Producing Device
3274035 – September 20, 1966 – Metallic Composition For Production of Hydroscopic Smoke
3300721 – January 24, 1967 – Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases
3313487 – April 11, 1967 – Cloud Seeding Apparatus
3338476 – August 29, 1967 – Heating Device For Use With Aerosol Containers – Referenced in 3990987
3410489 – November 12, 1968 – Automatically Adjustable Airfoil Spray System With Pump
3429507 – February 25, 1969 – Rainmaker
3432208 – November 7, 1967 – Fluidized Particle Dispenser
3441214 – April 29, 1969 – Method And Apparatus For Seeding Clouds
3445844 – May 20, 1969 – Trapped Electromagnetic Radiation Communications System
3456880 – July 22, 1969 – Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmosphere
3518670 June 30, 1970 – Artificial Ion Cloud
3534906 – October 20, 1970 – Control of Atmospheric Particles
3545677 – December 8, 1970 – Method of Cloud Seeding
3564253 – February 16, 1971 – System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas
3587966 – June 28, 1971 – Freezing Nucleation
3601312 – August 24, 1971 – Methods of Increasing The Likelihood oF Precipatation [sic]By The Artificial Introduction Of Sea Water Vapor Into The Atmosphere Winward Of An Air Lift Region
3608810 – September 28, 1971 – Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions
3608820 – September 20, 1971 – Treatment of Atmospheric Conditions by Intermittent Dispensing of Materials Therein
3613992 – October 19, 1971 – Weather Modification Method
3630950 – December 28, 1971 – Combustible Compositions For Generating Aerosols, Particularly Suitable For Cloud Modification And Weather Control And Aerosolization Process
USRE29142 – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
3659785 – December 8, 1971 – Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material
3666176 – March 3, 1972 – Solar Temperature Inversion Device
3677840 – July 18, 1972 – Pyrotechnics Comprising Oxide of Silver For Weather Modification Use
3722183 – March 27, 1973 – Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere
3769107 – October 30, 1973 – Pyrotechnic Composition For Generating Lead Based Smoke
3784099 – January 8, 1974 – Air Pollution Control Method
3785557 – January 15, 1974 – Cloud Seeding System
3795626 – March 5, 1974 – Weather Modification Process
3808595 – April 30, 1974 – Chaff Dispensing System
3813875 – June 4, 1974 – Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmospphere [sic]
3835059 – September 10, 1974 – Methods of Generating Ice Nuclei Smoke Particles For Weather Modification And Apparatus Therefore
3835293 – September 10, 1974 – Electrical Heating Aparatus [sic] For Generating Super Heated Vapors
3877642 – April 15, 1975 – Freezing Nucleant
3882393 – May 6, 1975 – Communications System Utilizing Modulation of The Characteristic Polarization of The Ionosphere
3896993 – July 29, 1975 – Process For Local Modification of Fog And Clouds For Triggering Their Precipitation And For Hindering The Development of Hail Producing Clouds
3899129 – August 12, 1975 – Apparatus for generating ice nuclei smoke particles for weather modification
3899144 – August 12, 1975 – Powder contrail generation
3940059 – February 24, 1976 – Method For Fog Dispersion
3940060 – February 24, 1976 – Vortex Ring Generator
3990987 – November 9, 1976 – Smoke generator
3992628 – November 16, 1976 – Countermeasure system for laser radiation
3994437 – November 30, 1976 – Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals
4042196 – August 16, 1977 – Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes
RE29,142 – February 22, 1977 – Reissue of: 03630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
4035726 – July 12, 1977 – Method of controlling and/or improving high-latitude and other communications or radio wave surveillance systems by partial control of radio wave et al
4096005 – June 20, 1978 – Pyrotechnic Cloud Seeding Composition
4129252 – December 12, 1978 – Method and apparatus for production of seeding materials
4141274 – February 27, 1979 – Weather modification automatic cartridge dispenser
4167008 – September 4, 1979 – Fluid bed chaff dispenser
4347284 – August 31, 1982 – White cover sheet material capable of reflecting ultraviolet rays
4362271 – December 7, 1982 – Procedure for the artificial modification of atmospheric precipitation as well as compounds with a dimethyl sulfoxide base for use in carrying out said procedure
4402480 – September 6, 1983 – Atmosphere modification satellite
4412654 – November 1, 1983 – Laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying of liquids
4415265 – November 15, 1983 – Method and apparatus for aero



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015


It's almost impossible for the unaided eye to be able to see the difference between a plane flying at (say, for example) 35,000 feet and one at 32,000 feet. That slight different in altitude is more than enough to be the difference between air that is conducive to contrails and air that is not. Heck, only a few feet can be enough (such as with intermittent contrails).

As for the list of weather control ideas, experiments, and patents, its quite the logical leap to go from those to saying "People try to control weather; therefore, some of those white trails that look like contrails are really are chemtrails."

You're going to need a lot more to fill in the missing dots of your hypothesis.


edit on 22/12/2017 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

The technology of jet engines has changed that much. Just about every new commercial aircraft uses high bypass turbofans. They became common in the mid 90s, right when everyone says they started seeing chemtrails appear. A high bypass turbofan will leave a contrail where a medium or low bypass turbofan won't.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

Anyway, the reason for this thread is last Tuesday, I went outside in the morning and there were no Chemtrails anywhere in the sky. I was thinking, "today is going to be hot day since there are no Chemtrails." It was 57 degrees and really warm!

List of temperatures for December in New Jersey:

www.accuweather.com...

You could argue because it was warm is why all the "contrails" evaporated. That may be the case. As I said, it's hard to prove one way or the other.



On aircraft which fly above 30,000 feet, the temperature can often can get to temperatures below Jet-A's freezing point. For example: at 36,000 feet the standard outside air temperature is -56.5°C (-69.7°F) and is well below Jet-A's freezing point of -40°C/F.Mar 12, 2014


And:



As the pressure gets lower, the temperature decreases. The rate of decrease of temperature with elevation is known as the adiabatic lapse rate, which is approximately 9.8 °C per kilometer (or 5.4 °F per 1000 feet) of altitude.


I'm not smart enough with weather physics to figure out if at 30,000 feet with 32°F, and if ground temperature is 57°F, what would the temperature be at 30,000 feet. I may be smart enough but just lazy. Does anyone with more brains than me know how to answer this?


First of all I'm not sure I understand your point about the temperature at which jet fuel freezes; a contrail is not frozen jet fuel. A contrail is almost entirely frozen water (ice crystals).

There may be some engine exhaust soot and CO2 in the contrail directly behind a plane being produced by engine combustion, but most of that soot is invisible, even in freezing temperatures. The exception being is the water that is produced by the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel -- i.e., the hydrogen in the fuel bonds with oxygen during cumbuation, creating water as a by-product, which can freeze and become visible.

However, that water created from the burning of the fuel is only a small portion of the water (ice crystals) visible in a contrail. Most of the stuff in a visible contrail was already in the air even before the plane flew through it. The air is full of invisible water vapor, and the jet engine intakes suck in a large amount of air to help the engines run. The moisture in that air intersts with the engines and the engine exhauist in such a way that when condidtions are right (reltive humidty and temprature, mostly), that invisble water vapor (again, most of which was already present in the air) condenses and freezes into visble ice crystals.


By the way, the temperature begins to drop off at altitude no matter how warm it is on the ground. That's because the air becomes too thin to hold enough heat. And that is generally true at altitude for warm places as well as cold places. For example, the temperature of the air at 30,000 feet will almost always at least as cold as around -30°C, even on a warm day in Florida. At 35,000 feet, it will almost always be at least as cold as aorund -40°C. The air is just way too thin for the sun in Florida to warm up the air at at those altitudes.

And those temperatures are cold enough to freeze the moisture in the air coming out of a jet engine, and in the air behind a jet engine. If the relative humidity at 30,000 feet is high enough, a contrail can be produced in New Jersey even when the surface temps are 57 degrees F.



edit on 22/12/2017 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

The general rule of thumb is that it drops about 5.5 degrees per 1000 feet.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 07:13 PM
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chemtrails dont exist
thats all folks!



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:17 AM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

So why do contrails spread out across the sky to create cloud cover? Does the contrail start a chain reaction? Why don't they dissipate? What prolongs their appearance? Why isn't it raining in California? Why are there real time images of precipitation clouds running into an atmospheric "wall" offshore of coastal California and literally being vaporized?



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 05:06 AM
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originally posted by: EternalShadow
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

So why do contrails spread out across the sky to create cloud cover? Does the contrail start a chain reaction? Why don't they dissipate? What prolongs their appearance? Why isn't it raining in California? Why are there real time images of precipitation clouds running into an atmospheric "wall" offshore of coastal California and literally being vaporized?


because they are man made cirrus clouds. You see high cirrus clouds doing that just before a changing weather system.
California is Satan's den, so it's a bit different.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 05:14 AM
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a reply to: EternalShadow

contrails spread across the sky - for the same reason - that any other could spreads [ they disapate for the same reasons too ]



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 05:31 AM
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Water vapors were not common.

They require specific atmospheric conditions, which don't exist normally, in the atmosphere.


When these trails began to appear every day, with the same engines as before, it was noticed more and more, and it seemed very odd.

The trails didn't dissipate, either. Not like the other trails did.

And they are not like those other trails, obviously.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 05:37 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1


Water vapors were not common.


really ???

please explain what absolute humidity is - just for entertainment



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 05:44 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015



Heres some chem-trails , have a guess when that was taken . Chem trails , pfft .

Sorry i was wrong as they are chem trails , hydrogen and freekin oxygen .
edit on 23-12-2017 by hutch622 because: (no reason given)



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