Bitcoin Dives Below $12,000 - Analysts Say Could Spark "Market Contagion" in Cryptos

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: the owlbear

Honestly, even if your co-worker does everything right, he still might end up in that van. Then again, I suppose the same could be said for any of us..

If he just has one currency, a software wallet can work well. If he has more than one, a hardware wallet like the Ledger Nano S is the way to go. Really, a hardware wallet is probably the way to go regardless, but its extra cost.

Keeping your investments in an exchange is a little bit like having a bookie store all your winnings indefinitely. Not the best analogy, but in both cases, they just aren't "best practices."

My personal hope is that my own small investments can help fund my business which will ideally change the world in a substantial way. I have no other options, since my health precludes hard time frames (which most normal investors request). This subject provides a singular and unique opportunity for folks in my position, if it grows.

Many would do well to remember that a market that can grow immensely in short time frames can also shrink the same way. As long as the overall trend is upwards, its a viable investment.

I don't think we will see its true potential until something comes out that makes it all more intuitive, fast, and simple for the average person.

Thank you once again.
I know about bookies. Luckily the one I know has a heart and a yearning to keep families together. Refuses to even take money from people with kids. He'll float them a loan, but not require the interest, and in some cases takes less cash just so the family can be better off and not require his services.

I agree that the true potential in crypto lies in the mainstream use as method of payment. Not just online, but for mortgage or car payments. If that were to happen, the sky is the limit.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
As for the market, I'd say this change was completely expected. Its strange to me how many are frothing at the mouth to see cryptocurrencies and blockchains fail. C'est la vie...

It's jealousy. People get mad when others have made millions by just buying bitcoin 5 years ago. Quite frankly me included, I heard about it and thought about buying some at least 3 years ago, but never did anything.

originally posted by: Archivalist
The term crash is relative here.

Bitcoin is up for the year. It could fall to $5,000 and still be up for 2017.

A correction happening right now, is soooooo much healthier than a runaway gain, I'm glad.

My algorithm for price prediction just had BTC at $8,000 for December 2017.

I am more than satisfied with the reality of the current market.

My algorithm places a run up to between $25,000 and $30,000 as a likely occurrence by May 2018.

If I were here to spread financial advice though, I would probably advise people to purchase MIOTA that cryptocurrency has a gain potential of 10x value over the next 24 months. Currently sells for between $3 - $4. No doubt in my mind, it will see $20-30 each by 2020.

((MIOTA is a crypto developed for IOT devices and machine to machine micro transactions. Microsoft has an interest in this crypto (involved in it's creation, as well as 20 other global reach corporations), and it just launched in summer 2017. It has a market cap of $10bil right now, but is obviously worth a $100bil market cap.

It is intended for micro transactions ranging from streaming fees, to smart power grids, smart parking fees, smart laundromats, etc... Anywhere, where machine to machine transactions occur, and it would be beneficial to remove the human interaction from the device to device services.))

IOTA is getting a ton of hype for the possibility it represents. But right now it really does not work nearly like it is supposed to. Of all the currency's in the top 20 I think it is the most risky, and the fact they helped hype partnerships they really did not have makes me very suspicious. I think it is overvalued for what it is at this point.

I am a ripple believer all the way. They are the only crypto company with a great business case, 250 million in VC backing, great transaction performance, a history of millions of transactions with zero issues, and deals with 100+ customers.

there seems to be no 'safe haven' to park one's money...

if you gain in a Bubble Equities DOW ~~~ you can't move to crypto-coins for safety~~~ nor can you expect to retain your profits by switching from Stocks or Crypto's to Land or Commodities....

It Seems Every venture you enter into is fraught with the investors 'gaming' or treating your chosen venue as a 'Casino' so they can live-high or bet their Bank on a too-Risky position because Its' a win-or-lose...Who F***ing Cares Attitude

The Fed has given us the Warning ---> they are upping rates on Bonds that NO-Body will Buy in 2018 or beyond, because the USD is in a strangulation mode, the world is De-Dollar-izing across the board... the immigrant anarchists are ready to strike to act as a deflection of the root cause - which is the USAs economic+debt System instead of just Open-Borders for avowed Jihadist Muslims

one thing that completely blindsided me was that the Trump Tax Plan has spurred Banks & Corps to hand-out $1000. bonuses for 100,000 employees, also the Banks & Corps have given $12 hr clerks a raise 1o $15 hr as the new wage base... all taken into account my $25 a month Pension increase is now NULL-&-VOID as to my living standard... in fact ALL the social-security receivers are now in worse shape this 2018 than we were in 2017 ~~ as prices will now rise beyond the 2% COLA increase we get this January

Frogs in a pot of increasingly hotter water, is where most everyone is at....

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Bitcoin, or any crypto-currency, is not unlike any other fiat currency in that its value is based on demand. If no one wants it - it has no value. Bitcoin will be in demand at least until there is a better alternative in digital currency. More big money is starting to accept bitcoin and the market devoted specifically to bitcoin is growing. You can now buy a Lamborghini from a giant vending machine using bitcoin. I know that is not the best example of the validity of the currency, but it does demonstrate that various entities are investing in its future.

I see this correction as a buy opportunity and I am watching the prices and waiting...

There are dozens of other crypto currencies that are better than bitcoin. IT SUCKS. Hours to complete a transaction, high fees, and only the ability to do 16 transactions a second.

It is a joke in terms of a workable currency. It is great that it was the first and introduced the blockchain, but it's time has passed, many other currencies are far superior. It should not be the most popular any longer.

I too see it as a buying opportunity, but not for bitcoin. I am never going to buy it again, it's time is over, and the market is starting to realize it, just look how much it's market dominance has dropped the last month.

Bitcoin is going to be the big kid on the block for a while. Of course there are others that are worth buying, and i probably own most of the ones you are talking about. And I have my eye on a few fractional cent coins that may show some promise long term. I don't think bitcoin is going away any time soon so big drop in price, especially after so many noobs bought in because of the recent news, is nothing to worry about. Its much like the 1920's. A whole lot of people with little experience in investing bought in because they keep hearing about the profits other people are making. Most of them don't have the stomach for it and panic the first time they see their balance drop. There is a lot of knee-jerk selling going on. Just look at the numbers. It dipped to the $10k range and is already back to $14.5k. 40% in one afternoon is ok with me.

BTC is going to hit $15k again by tonight. I don't see it taking until the 1st of the year to bounce back.

So far, flash crashes of BTC/ETH/LTC have been good to me. Buy the crash and sell a bit of the profit after the bounce back (and all have bounced back in a week or less). Doesn't appear this will be any different.

~Winter

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Bitcoin, or any crypto-currency, is not unlike any other fiat currency in that its value is based on demand. If no one wants it - it has no value. Bitcoin will be in demand at least until there is a better alternative in digital currency. More big money is starting to accept bitcoin and the market devoted specifically to bitcoin is growing. You can now buy a Lamborghini from a giant vending machine using bitcoin. I know that is not the best example of the validity of the currency, but it does demonstrate that various entities are investing in its future.

I see this correction as a buy opportunity and I am watching the prices and waiting...

There are dozens of other crypto currencies that are better than bitcoin. IT SUCKS. Hours to complete a transaction, high fees, and only the ability to do 16 transactions a second.

It is a joke in terms of a workable currency. It is great that it was the first and introduced the blockchain, but it's time has passed, many other currencies are far superior. It should not be the most popular any longer.

I too see it as a buying opportunity, but not for bitcoin. I am never going to buy it again, it's time is over, and the market is starting to realize it, just look how much it's market dominance has dropped the last month.

Bitcoin is going to be the big kid on the block for a while. Of course there are others that are worth buying, and i probably own most of the ones you are talking about. And I have my eye on a few fractional cent coins that may show some promise long term. I don't think bitcoin is going away any time soon so big drop in price, especially after so many noobs bought in because of the recent news, is nothing to worry about. Its much like the 1920's. A whole lot of people with little experience in investing bought in because they keep hearing about the profits other people are making. Most of them don't have the stomach for it and panic the first time they see their balance drop. There is a lot of knee-jerk selling going on. Just look at the numbers. It dipped to the $10k range and is already back to $14.5k. 40% in one afternoon is ok with me.

I'm not saying it is going to go away, but it's days as the leading crypto coin are very numbered in my opinion.

I do not think it will be the leader by the end of 2018 if not sooner. It is only going to take one big name company promoting a crypto - say amazon and that will become the defacto leader. Amazon could never promote Bitcoin, or or even Etherium because they are just to slow to have practical use for transactions. But Amazon has a big motivation to want to use a crypto for payments - because A. No more paying a 2.5% credit card fee on purchases and that would be a huge improvement to Amazon's margins, B. Less issues with currency translation, C. They get to hold a large amount of crypto which is likely to increase in value faster than fiat currency.

There have been several rumors about amazon wanting to get into the financial services also - and using crypto to cut fees and speed up transactions is an obvious thing to do to gain competitive advantage.

I could be wrong - but I don't think I am. Bitcoin started the year with 85% dominance and now is 45% dominant. That trend has only been accelerating the last few weeks.

Bitcoin's already hit $15k.

Rebounded quite nicely.

Bitoin Cash rebounded somewhat as well.

So has Eth and LTC.

Ripple had a sell off and has climbed back up.

Wonder what the weekend will bring.

originally posted by: proximo
Amazon could never promote Bitcoin, or or even Etherium because they are just to slow to have practical use for transactions. But Amazon has a big motivation to want to use a crypto for payments - because A. No more paying a 2.5% credit card fee on purchases and that would be a huge improvement to Amazon's margins, B. Less issues with currency translation, C. They get to hold a large amount of crypto which is likely to increase in value faster than fiat currency.

Amazon has already solved this credit card problem.

They have introduced "Amazon Cash", both in the US and in Canada.

The beauty of "Amazon Cash" is that anyone can download the "bar code" for their Amazon Cash account, print it out, or display in on their cell phone, take that to the nearest Post Office and load up their "Amazon Cash" account with funds in Canada, or use several retail merchants in the USA, just like buying "Amazon Gift Cards".

So, you have well established "money changers" easily accessible for loading up your "Amazon Cash" all across the country.

Amazon doesn't need bitcoin or anything like it, they already let you "digitize" your cash, and keep it in your "Amazon Wallet", for when you want to buy something from Amazon.

Better yet, there are no "fees" involved in loading/using "Amazon Cash", nor in spending "Amazon Cash".

Compare that to the transaction fees for bitcoin, which has hit an average of $50 USD per transaction as of today Friday 22nd December 2017 !

a reply to: FamCore
I wager in two years the bit coin will go the way of the pet rock, and the 8 track tape.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
It needed to start going down. It should mean it needs to crash the whole system to do it....

Argh that was supposed to say

"It needed to start going down. It shouldNT mean it needs to crash the whole system to do it...."

a reply to: AMPTAH

Well, there are virtually no fees for something like ripple either, 1/1000 of a penny per transaction, and you can refill your account all online with no need for any retail merchants, or physical cards - so that can be instantly accessible worldwide.

Compare that to the transaction fees for bitcoin, which has hit an average of $50 USD per transaction as of today Friday 22nd December 2017 !

I already have said bitcoin is a garbage coin on this thread - you will get no argument from me on that.

originally posted by: Nickn3
a reply to: FamCore
I wager in two years the bit coin will go the way of the pet rock, and the 8 track tape.

Bitcoin will, Crypto currency will not - it is here to stay.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Once upon a time bitcoin was unique.

It was the sparkling new kid on the block.

In order to get gold, you've got to mine that gold out of the ground. It takes a big capital investment in mining equipment and personell to get started, to produce some more gold.

So, getting into the gold business has a hurdle, an initial barrier to overcome.

Every heard of "panning" for gold?

a reply to: MisterSpock
Be patient. BTC has a long history of vast fluctuations. You'll have a chance to buy in at a much lower price. Just give it time.

I kick myself every day for not taking better care of my Bitcoin wallets back when they weren't hardly worth anything.

a reply to: AMPTAH


The big thing about the cartels dumping on the price of the Precious metals is that the quoted prices like silver cannot be produced at that manipulated price anymore. At 16. 40 an ounce is the greatest bargain on Earth. Their are very few actual silver mines, its usually a byproduct of Gold Copper and Zinc mines. Since they are closing down because of lack of growth, the real value of Silver and Gold certainly is nothing like the present prices.

originally posted by: purplemer
Dont worry its climbing again now.

Kinda of proves the point. Volatility.

originally posted by: proximo
You probably have not been following the space closely...

I have, and it reminds me of the tech bubble in the late 1990's.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: purplemer
Dont worry its climbing again now.

Kinda of proves the point. Volatility.

A well known aphorism in the commodity futures markets is that

"volatility increases just before a market reversal."

Applying futures logic to bitcoin suggests that bitcoin is about to hit it's peak and reverse the trend.