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Kneeling at the Anthem VS. Flying the Confederate Flag???

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posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Germany doesn’t fly swastikas above their state capital...

What blows my mind is the obliviousness of how COMPLETELY UNPATRIOTIC it is..

The planter class literally tried to rip America apart over a demagogic fear of of losing their investment and future profits from slavery.. which were astronomical..


That said as a private citizen, knock yourself out..

But the state doing it makes it institutional... and institutional problems shouldn’t be ignored




posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:14 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

The planter class literally tried to rip America apart over a demagogic fear of of losing their investment and future profits from slavery.. which were astronomical..


Gawd, you're an ideological loon.


That said as a private citizen, knock yourself out..




posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep


There is no symbol that can accurately describe what I think this country is. I think people who "worship" flags are silly.

I agree. A song comes to mind though.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:20 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Your right they were Americans.. who trash canned the US constitution and wrote their own, seized countless US property and weaponry, then lead an armed assault on a military base before starting a war that killed HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people..

Your damn right they were Americans.. just damn traitorous ones, who betrayed their country.. ESPECIALLY all the generals who had actually taken oaths to the US..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:23 AM
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a reply to: sine.nomine


No the confederacy was not a United States Army..

They were a rebellion that FOUGHT the US army..

We refer to “the north” as if America was founded in 1865...


I’m pretty sure that was 1776..right?? (That really is me asking lol..)



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Stayed on public land...

If a private citizen wants to be a jackass.. more power to them..

But the state doing it makes it institutional..


That whole “erasing history” argument really is just a sad deflection..

The statues being there is erasing history.. it is pretending like the south fought for some just cause. Rather than to seize 1/3 of US sovereign territory cause they were scared they might oneday in the future lose their slaves..

ALMOST None of the statues teach any history.. they don’t recount the battle or spell out the cause or lessons learned from the war.

They are FU’s to intergration.

Robert E Lee hated them.. Forest spent his last years speaking at black churches preaching reconciliation..

So it doesn’t even respect their memories or wish’s..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: The GUT

I think they are called history buffs lol..

That’s what happened...

It was a power play by a relatively small group of southern planters and politicians.

They had held a congressional , presidential and Supreme Court majority for decades.due to the “3/5’s law” (an abolitionist law believe it or not.. the slave states wanted full legislative representation for the slaves) which gave them seats for the slaves who couldn’t vote.

then the John Brown raid fractured the democrat party on the eve of the election. Allowing Lincoln to win when he shouldn’t have..

Lincoln’s main position was to keep the western states free, which would HYPOTHETICALLY give the freestates a legislative majority. So the Slave states tried to bounce, and Lincoln’s said “no haps”..

Which I think is a direct quote..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: sine.nomine

People do hypothetical stuff on a daily basis.. that ain’t new lol..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
Which one ?

They had a few.
I think you know which one the OP is referencing.


originally posted by: sine.nomine

Isn't the Confederate flag an American flag?
Nope. At least not the one we all have grown to know and love so much.

the Confederate battle flag was not, in fact, “the Confederate flag” and was not known as the “Stars and Bars.”
Embattled Banner
The flag that the OP is referring to was part of a battle flag that has been adopted during the 1940-50's civil rights movement.

The Confederate flag became a symbol of protest against civil rights and in support of Jim Crow segregation.
...as the civil rights movement gathered force, especially in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision, defenders of segregation increasingly employed the use of the battle flag as a symbol of their cause.
This flag is a symbol of segregation, hatred and racism. It was not a flag of the Confederate States of America.

For those that want to honor and preserve American history and its cultural heritage I have added this with the pdf link below, its a good read.


The Confederate battle flag is one of the most
controversial symbols from U.S. history, recognizable by its red background and blue “X” adorned with 13 white stars.
...
To many white Southerners, the flag is an emblem of regional heritage and pride. But to others, it has a starkly different meaning — representing racism, slavery and the country’s long history of oppression of African Americans.
...
The flag we see most often today is a rectangular version of the square battle flag that was flown by the Army of Northern Virginia, the South’s primary military force in the Civil War. But this was never the national flag of the Confederate States of America (CSA).
...
It’s difficult to make the case today that the Confederate flag is not a racist symbol. After being used sparingly for decades, it began appearing frequently in the 1950s and 1960s as white Southerners resisted efforts to dismantle Jim Crow segregation. It began to fly over state capitols and city halls across the region.
Source-PDF download

Here is an online source, nonPDF.

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." --Mark Twain
edit on 12/21/2017 by Devino because: added link and quote



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 02:01 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
The Confederates were Americans.
You are showing respect to Americans who died in combat from the South.
Sure, I agree and I think we should preserve and honor our history but what does that have to do with the confederate battle flag the OP is referring to?



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 06:12 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Libraries are funded by he state and sit on state land.

All you're doing is justifying book burning.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

And if a US library has a statue of traitors who killed 130,000 US soldiers, it should probably be removed...

No one is talking about destroying the statues...well no one with any clout..you can find one idiot saying anything.. there are 350 million Americans.

I guess it is an interesting question if US public libraries should loan out fabricated anti American propaganda...

Maybe just put it in the fiction section.. Since every historian on the planet agrees the lost cause narrative was fake and propaganda..

Strangely enough reconciling propaganda.. as it took some of the sting of the loss out of the southern consciousness..


Not remembering that is destroying history.. pretending like the lost cause stuff is real , is destroying history..


Not remembering that almost universally, regardless of race , creed or color. If our ancestors had the ability to act like monsters , they acted like monsters.. is erasing history..

The real lesson is that when human beings are given absolute power of other human beings, we tend to act like monsters..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

For many (not all...and no, I don't own a Confederate battle flag or Confederate flag of any type) it represents the 10th Amendment and a state's rights issue.

I know that it's easy to argue against that, but just as many are ignorant to many things, you are absolutely ignorant to the "why" behind people flying/displaying the CBF.

As for the kneeling, I would argue that Kaepernick and others who followed him have a small amount of validity behind their argument, but as with many (like BLM), much of what they display or cite as a problem has more to do with the individual than the officer during the incident.

Here's the thing: Flag flying generally is done on one's own property on their own free time, whereas the kneeling was happening on company property on company time. I support Kaepernick and others protesting for whatever reason they deem fit, but not during company time or in a way that takes advantage of "celebrity privilege" while disregarding the "why" behind those who pay your salary are there in the first place.

But, whatevs...both are a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: DBCowboy


People don’t fly swastikas in present day germany...

That's because the (sometimes) overbearing German government made it illegal to openly do/say/display anything that equates to support for/of Nazism. And what's funny (not in a "ha ha" way) is that there's still a Nazi party (under a different name) in Germany right now.

We don't have a government like that (yet), and we should be thankful.


I have no problem with people flying the confeterate flag.. but don’t then turn around and call yourself a patriot.. then pretend like you care who disrespects the military..

But, with this comment, you're pretending to know the motivation of each person for displaying the Confederate Battle Flag, and in doing so, you're generalizing out of ignorance so that you can say that these people are not patriots and cannot care about people disrespecting the military.

Sorry, that's not how it works.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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Kneeling during the anthem while you're being paid on the job from another organization

versus

flying the confederate flag at your house or on your lifted pickup.

Can you not see the difference?

How do you think it would go for you to display the confederate flag while on your job representing your company?

You'd get fired.

Kneeling during the national anthem while representing a team paying you?

You should get fired.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

If someone is flying a swastika or the flag of whatever that pedo group is called, outside their house(mamba? Maybe??) , do you stop to ask yourself “maybe they have some fictional reason why they believe it’s ok??”


Irregulardless, whatever individual people’s interpretation is, the reality remains..


It’s revisionist history and the lost cause movement.. it even has its own wiki page and is well documented.

After the war and any Americans realizing any reconstruction effort would have to be based off black sufferage. They checked out..

The majority didn’t care about the plight of the slaves.. they hated the economic ramifications, no jobs, exc..

That’s where the kkk explosion of the early 1900scame from. It was the counter revolution to abolition..

The “welfare queen” narrative is a direct counter revolution to civil rights and affirmative action..


It happens in waves.. we see a problem and try to fix it.. get mad at the societal changes and undo most of the progress.then get mad because we never actually addressed the problem in the first place..






The states rights issue started with slavery.. and in a weird way still slavery still applies.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

They put the CBF on state flags and put up statues ....

Call me crazy, but that is not equivalent of “people having one in their yard”...

Nor is it even remotely as “targeted” as kneeling for 2 min during a televised football game..

Millions more people have see the CBF and the statues, then have watched the kneeling..

PS ...

No one has said private citizens shouldn’t be allowed to.. just that is is INSANELY unpatriotic and the state shouldn’t do it..



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: SlapMonkey


Irregulardless, whatever individual people’s interpretation is, the reality remains..

Ah, but now we get into the realm of what I was talking about concerning ignorance: If someone believes something to be true, is it not their reality.

When dealing with history, there are as many differing eye-witness accounts of the same things as there are graves of civil-war soldiers, so if you want to argue that all of the research that you've done negates the possibility that their belief of what the flag represents to them is more important than the official truth, feel free, but that still doesn't change the fact that you are ignorant to the "why" behind each individual's choice to display the Confederate battle flag, regardless as to how many wiki pages and websites that exist.

By all means, feel free to educate others, but in doing so, you might also find it pertinent to ask "why" they are proud of the flag in the first place. Maybe the educating will work both ways.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: SlapMonkey

They put the CBF on state flags and put up statues ....


And slavery started when the colonists were British citizens...so, technically, the British were the slave owners until we officially segregated from Britain and changed the flag that we lived under.

But Hawai'i still has the Union Jack on its state flag...should be piss and moan over that, because it represents slavery and war to keep us oppressed under heavy taxation and monarchal rule?

In any event, like I noted before, both issues are non-issues in the grand scheme of life, so wasting more time discussing this is not in my best interest.

Best regards.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Concerning th last paragraph..

Doesn’t Kapernick and the BLM get to decide what their protest disrespects then?!?!

If these hypothetical CBF wavers are mad at Kapernick for disrespecting the military, while flying the flag of a group who harmed the American military more than any group in history.......

I know plenty of people only like the CBF because their uncle who loved them dearly did. The uncle (or whoever) who would do anything for them..

But why did he like it?? Why did the uncle who he got it from like it???

It all goes back to the white supremacy believed to be the scientific fact of the day..


In a way you can’t completely blame them.. if today we found out the world was flat, are we stupid for believing EVERYONE when they said it was round???


But that still makes them wrong, and flying their flag pretends they were right and worth celebrating.



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