It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Hey "Liberals", you want to use government force to take my money?

page: 7
31
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 09:18 AM
link   
All I read was "screw you jack I'm doing fine".
Typical mindset glad I'm not part of.




posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 10:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

use the free market, how can you be altruistic when you expecting the government to put a gun to my head and make me have morals?>


Free market has nothing to do with infrastructure. Unless every time YOU want to cross a river, or a highway, or a gorge you have a bridge built...by the lowest bidder, of course. I would think that would seriously impact your travel time.

Maybe you'd like to go back to the days when sewage was just dumped in the streets as well?


edit on 21-12-2017 by kelbtalfenek because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 10:46 AM
link   
And this is where the disconnect with everyone lies.........

If you think for one second that you are entitled to take other people's money to pay for YOUR stuff, you need to sit down and reevaluate your thinking process.

On the other hand, if you think the free market capitalist nature is the solve all idea, that business have nothing but the consumer in mind, and "anyone can do anything if you just try"...... Guess what? You also need to sit down and reevaluate your thinking process.

The majority of our regulations and rules set in place, programs, environmental protections and so forth, are in direct response to business screwing over people whenever possible to ensure they can pocket some money. If you don't see that, you're either blind or don't care because it shows you are incorrect.

Again in contrast to that, if we weren't being taxed for every breath we take, we probably could afford for protections of our own volition.

All this boils down to, is spending.

Drop the trillions of dollars of waste on *Sexual Assault hush money*, military spending, USDOT spending (nothing like a national monopoly to charge $150,000 for some painted crosswalks), Gold plated congressional healthcare, the failing war on drugs, all of our pointless, useless committees, groups, boards, polls, etc.... That's the only place to really start.

Unfortunately both sides of the spectrum are wrong.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 11:26 AM
link   
a reply to: dothedew




If you think for one second that you are entitled to take other people's money to pay for YOUR stuff, you need to sit down and reevaluate your thinking process.


They take MY money to pay for MY stuff. They take YOUR money to pay for YOUR stuff. Do you not use any infrastructure? Are you not protected by our military? The list goes on and on.

If you don't want your taxes to go to any of this, then all you have to do is "exempt" yourself. But keep in mind, you will also not be able to claim any government benefits.




If you claim exemption from withholding, your employer will not withhold federal income tax from your wages. The exemption applies only to income tax, not to Social Security or Medicare tax.


IRS Link



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 12:16 PM
link   
Theer're a couple things I believe.

First, I believe government is fundamental. People TOGETHER and COORDINATED are more efficient. It's physics. And it works at all scales. Be it a group of friends, a family, a tribe or a village. Someone(s) takes a lead. Leaders, or elders, are charismatic, usually intelligent and usually physically able. The throngs of people need and even want to be organized to be better than when they're alone. A normal person enjoys this social experience.

Second, a government--or leadership--cannot exceed its technology and infrastructure. If the fastest a person can go is running speed then be weary of expanding your empire to the size of a continent. Infrastructure, like roads, enable police to patrol effectively and for your tradespeople to exchange goods. Information technology allows you to communicate with people far away. If a government exceeds its limits, it eventually crumbles.

Third, I believe, over time, individual humans are losing value and government value is increasing. Our genetics--or abilities or knowledge--aren't keeping up with the changing times. This is a product of the larger numbers of people and of other factors. The result is government has increasing power as leverage. To decrease the power of government, individuals must increase their value.

Fourth, I believe in any mildly free system there'll always be valleys and hills. There'll be spits and starts. Rises and collapses. This can't be prevented without overcontrol. Overcontrol negatively impacts our ability to survive, so it usually doesn't last long. It's exactly like a empire exceeding its limits, except overcontrol is exceeding our ability to predict the future. The result is collapse in both cases. The time to collapse varies.
edit on 12/21/2017 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 01:07 PM
link   
a reply to: Liquesence

Toysforadults is apparently in favor of all roads being owned by private companies and tolled based on use, all schools being private and paid for by individual tuition, all emergency services such as fire and police paid for as POS type services where you whip out the credit card when the help arrives, or your home burns down, etc.

No taxes. Just pay for what you use. It's ridiculous, really.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 01:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: toysforadults

So you don't want bridges and other things maintained?

You don't want clean drinking water?

You want higher infant mortality?

You want poorly paid teachers?

You don't want Social Security?

You don't want natural parks?

And you don't want renewable energy?

Because that's what I'm getting from your post. I don't think any of those things are bad. Apparently you think that altruism for the benefit of the future is a bad thing. Fair enough.


Is this called false equivalence? Or is there some other name for this fallacy? (Hint: the fallacy is that lower taxes automatically come at the expense of those things you've listed).
edit on 21-12-2017 by jwlaffer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 01:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: jwlaffer

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: toysforadults

So you don't want bridges and other things maintained?

You don't want clean drinking water?

You want higher infant mortality?

You want poorly paid teachers?

You don't want Social Security?

You don't want natural parks?

And you don't want renewable energy?

Because that's what I'm getting from your post. I don't think any of those things are bad. Apparently you think that altruism for the benefit of the future is a bad thing. Fair enough.


Is this called false equivalence? Or is there some other name for this fallacy? (Hint: the fallacy is that lower taxes automatically come at the expense of those things you've listed).


Ask the OP, not me. I'm responding in a like manner to his post.



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 02:01 PM
link   
a reply to: Eshel

Am I protected by our military? No.

I want to know what my freedoms are doing all the over on the other side of the planet. Guarding Poppy fields, invading 3rd world countries, developing trillion dollar jets that don't fly, and toppling foreign governments does absolutely to guard me from anything.

I use infrastructure that I would more than happy to pay my fair share of..... If USDOT was NOT involved, as it would be tremendously cheaper.

The list goes on as open to interpretation, and greatly varied by person and what services they use. It also goes with spending, where private markets/sector would be able to provide the same services for a fraction of the price as our public sector would



posted on Dec, 21 2017 @ 02:17 PM
link   
a reply to: dothedew

cool, then just opt out like I suggested. It's super simple. On your W4, you just write "exempt" on line 7. It's much easier than bitching and moaning.

(my bet: you just want something to scream and yell about)



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 09:42 AM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

Let me see, I bet you are a Trump supporter. I know he won't publish his tax returns, but maybe you will publish yours, right here for all to see. I'm interested in how much money you are concerned about others taking away from you. But I do agree with you, with enough money donated to the right places the people can get their country back. But with most people today now living paycheck to paycheck, I seriously doubt that can happen. The wealthy can outspend them anytime. This is a tired argument. We all pay for things we don't like and should not have to. That's why we need people in office who are intelligent, have integrity, are compassionate and empathetic, and have common sense. These qualities would go a long way in doing what is best for the most.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 11:42 AM
link   
Typical liberal twitter grandstanding...
Make a list of social and economic problems you claim to be against while drinking a $5 cup of coffee...

And that's it...
You made a list and went no further. I would probably have a stroke if some leftists actually proposed a solution to the problems they claim to oppose.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 02:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
This about somes up the entire sjw, Democractic and "liberal" movement in a single snapshot.



Yup. Welcome to liberalland where you can take from others to fulfill your own dreams!

NOT

Get it right lefties! We have a free market, you want to donate more of your money to support the things you wish to see, go get it!

You have no right to take my money and force me to pay for things I don't care about!

So done with virtue signaling and this new socialist/ communist ideology taking over the loudest minority in American politics. You want something create it yourself using the free market like everyone else. Get out of my business.

EDIT:
Also, when you donate more than you have to to support the programs you want to support to the IRS during tax seasons because of your good nature. Please update us with a picture here in the thread. Don't reveal any personal info (PII) just let us know you have followed through with your idea and helped create a large government!


Shut up and pay your taxes, whiner.

You drink the water. Pay your taxes
You use the streets pay your taxes.
Your kids go to school. Pay your taxes.
You get injured and need a cast. Pay your taxes.

Whiner.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 02:58 PM
link   
LMAO! I love how you put government funded science on there, as if it's a bad thing. Some people are just so disillusioned. Tax cuts can be nice, but then you need to make up for it somewhere else. Nobody gets this. It's not as simple as just cutting rich people's taxes and then everything magically gets better. If you cut taxes, either you have to lower the budget spending or make up for it with somebody' else's money. I've been on the receiving end of budget cuts for the past 4 years in NJ under Christie. It's a huge mess. They cut 2 billion from education and unfairly froze all government worker salaries, yet won't even support things like legalizing marijuana which they would easily make all that money back from. Republicans just hate education and science. It's a shame. They live in the past.
edit on 12 22 17 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 05:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: toysforadults

So you don't want bridges and other things maintained?

You don't want clean drinking water?

You want higher infant mortality?

You want poorly paid teachers?

You don't want Social Security?

You don't want natural parks?

And you don't want renewable energy?

Because that's what I'm getting from your post. I don't think any of those things are bad. Apparently you think that altruism for the benefit of the future is a bad thing. Fair enough.


Yeah, he does want that. He just doesn't want to pay for it.

Like many of the ultra right, it all sounds great; "let the free market pay for it" - the invisible hand.

Even Adam Smith, the father of capitalism promised that capitalism could never work unless it existed within a strongly regulated state, otherwise, the society would experience what we are, ever increasing pressure toward monopolies, price-fixing, serfdom, a permanent wealthy/royal class and a LACK of freedom.

A society left to pure market forces quickly descends into a Lord of the Flies type of society, which, ironically - is exactly what a lot of these tough guys want.



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 06:55 PM
link   
a reply to: toysforadults

Anyone with those feelings are free to give back the tax money they get back. How many will?



posted on Dec, 22 2017 @ 11:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: DBCowboy

You’re really not listening to me or others who are questioning this tax bill.


First of all, I'm not against tax cuts for MC or poor people, or even tax cuts for the rich if there modest.


What most people don’t like is the humongous tax cuts for the rich.


“Poor” people don’t pay federal income tax, therefore they don’t get a tax cut.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 07:40 AM
link   
I might be parroting here but it's time to cut the military budget-it's over 500 billion dollars a year.

Imagine if ten percent of the military budget-roughly 50 billion a year-was redirected to public services or infrastructure then imagine what could be achieved. The US has been fighting an invisible war for decades and throwing money at something doesn't win a war. Sure there is upkeep and that's understandable, but America already has the muscle so it couldn't hurt to help the average Joe (or Joanne) because 50 billion a year is chump change for them military.


edit on 23-12-2017 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-12-2017 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 08:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: toysforadults

So you don't want bridges and other things maintained?

You don't want clean drinking water?

You want higher infant mortality?

You want poorly paid teachers?

You don't want Social Security?

You don't want natural parks?

And you don't want renewable energy?

Because that's what I'm getting from your post. I don't think any of those things are bad. Apparently you think that altruism for the benefit of the future is a bad thing. Fair enough.


Nowhere did I see him say that. You assumed that.

All I get is he doesn't want the Federal Government taking his, yours, or my money to accomplish it. There are many other ways to achieve those goals.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 08:54 AM
link   
Oh Jesus,

Each and every single posters tax money is going to pay aCongressmans pension. Yep that sums it up. Do the math. Complain about your money. They are living the high life and you are paying for it.

Only about two percent of "YOUR MONEY" goes to infrastructure. You are not building bridges, you are paying the medical benefits of the presidents that you hate..



new topics

top topics



 
31
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join