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Kinda agree ...We Christians who have entered a relationship with God are in a "all ready but not yet" situation .This "now and later" situation is a fluctuation within our minds we search to clarify .A battle if you will between love and hate or sin and holiness . Romans 7 brings this out " 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.…"
Kinda disagree
originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Raggedyman
Kinda agree ...We Christians who have entered a relationship with God are in a "all ready but not yet" situation .This "now and later" situation is a fluctuation within our minds we search to clarify .A battle if you will between love and hate or sin and holiness . Romans 7 brings this out " 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.…"
Kinda disagree
for me to say I don’t know would be reasonable answer. For anyone to say that it must be a God is a completely unreasonable answer that has no physical evidence to support it. I don’t have an answer for everything, And I want to invent one that doesn’t have testable results. So why would you except an answer that has no testable results?
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Gravity. You do know how stars and planets form? This isn’t new science.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Lol, oh my goodness. This is stuff they teach fifth graders man. The sun is supplying the earth with energy. Even though it is in a state of entropy, this energy bathes our entire world as it disipates. Large masses of matter have a proportional gravitational pull on objects which enter it’s field.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Anti entropic? You see that huge ball of gas burning in the sky sometimes? You know, the one that powers pretty much every reaction that takes place on this planet? The one constantly adding energy to this world? You ever see that?
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: Woodcarver
Again, watch the video. You will either except the answer or you won't.
The video is stupid. Your starting from a place where you have already accepted that a bunch of # actually happened. You literally have to believe in some crazy # to get this far into this explanation. All the while you are forgetting to bring any proof that this god you believe in, even exists.
Shouldn’t we start with proving that this god of yours is real? before you start attributing all of these motivations to him? It looks a lot like you are projecting your own motivations onto this thing. It is a way for you to feel above others. You can point around at people and arbitrarily judge them by your fav book. The book tells you what to like and what not to like, and then you expand on it to include anyone who disagrees with you. It’s just a book. A fictional book full of the things that people believed thousands of years ago. Meanwhile, some of us already know not to be dicks to people while your still spouting about adam and eve and atonement for things that never happened to a god that doesn’t exist. Those stories are old man. God isn’t real. That stuff didn’t happen.
I see no dif between islam and christianity. Both are worthless at anything except creating people who think they need to force others to comply with them.
Prove any god exists before you start telling people what he’s like.
Existence of everything, the whole universe, in its incredibly complex and varied form, despite 13.4 billion years of entropy, is a pretty good evidence of something way beyond science.
I mean, science tells us that nearly everything evolved from less complex forms. How did that entropy reversal happen and why is it now (measurably) going the other way?
Science is just another mythology, full of nonsense like 'anti-entropic' actions performed randomly by nothing, like the superluminal expansion of the universe, like that a universe-massive super-singularity could actually ever expand (surely it would attract, capture and collapse any existing mass to the singularity, for eternity), like quantum superposition and Pauli exclusion somehow don't negate the idea of creation of that super-singularity from quantum fluctuation. Like a multi-worlds hypothesis which jibes against the measurable fact that energy can neither be created nor destroyed (it would have to be infinitely creatable to bifurcate the existing universe into new ones all the time).
And, of course, you'd see Christianity and Islam as essentially the same.
That big ball is spraying out all its energy into space. Distributing and dissipating itself. It is the very engine of entropy.
The energy that it emanates from it, once went into it. The Sun does not 'make' energy, it converts some of the mass to energy through nuclear fusion.
When it has consumed itself and flung enough into space, it will go cold. Then it will still loose energy until even its smallest particles dissipate into space in the heat death of the universe.
It has been 'entropying' like this for tens of billions of years. But how did it get its start?
Why did enough 'Big Bang' energy convert itself into matter and then clump enough to attract gravitationally?
The same entropy, at the same rate that is killing the Sun today, despite its condensed mass, were acting upon it before its birth?
You seem to have forgotten that the stuff that is dissipating now must have come from somewhere and assembled rather than dissipating.
How?
... and how did gravity happen?
... and before you say mass causes gravity, that also is a non-answer. How did we get mass?
... and mass is a type of energy, where did the energy come from?
... and before you suggest a singularity, that is just a point of gravity and mass. It doesn't explain their existence but is part the entirely circular non-answer.
How?
You might think this or that about your God but you can’t prove any of it. So it’s just your opinion, just like all of the other opinions that contradict yours. In the end what are you left with just your own thoughts.
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver
The subject isn't you Woody, it's understanding the bible
You don't and pretending you do is silly
If you are a Hebrew and brake the Hebrew law, then you will be punished according to Hebrew law
Want to live outside of Hebrew law, leave
Is that so hard for you to understand
You so eloquently explained my point to yourself
Stop being silly, it's not a good look
originally posted by: Dcopymope
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Dcopymope
It's not complicated, and it's not about some "magic apple", or whatever, either.
God created people in His own image, and that meant giving people the freedom to choose. Why did He do this? God didn't want, as the video states, "automatons"; He wanted people who could choose to love Him, and choose to follow His perfect will. No freedom to choose, no actual love. A robot can't love you, even if programmed to state that it does.
Since people were given a choice, it's a safe bet that some will choose the wrong thing. Hence, God decided fro the before the beginning to take care of that as well. He came in the form of a man, and bled and died in our place, paying the price for our sins. He then rose, defeating death.
Why, someone will now ask, did God make death the penalty for sin? Laws are useless unless they are enforced. A law with no punishment isn't a law at all. Now, given that laws demand consequences if broken, and remembering free will, God's plan had to include that way of salvation, Himself.
You're right, it's not complicated, but the simple answer, that God knew that some, as you put it would make the wrong choice, has not been a good enough answer for those who ask the typical questions stemming from Adam and Even's temptation in Eden, which, you know, is why they keep asking it. I as well have not been happy with the responses Christians give to such answers either, so that's why I made the video to give an in-depth, yet straight forward answer I have yet to see anyone give anywhere, to spell it out for them. As I explain, it was more than just about us having a mind of our own, and God knowing this to be so. There is a specific reason why his son was predestined to be the lamb slain for our sins before the six day creation. The reason is simple, as far as God was concerned, "all have sinned and come short of his glory", as Paul stated in Romans. He didn't say "some will sin", or "some will make the wrong choice", he said " ALL have sinned", which is basically a shining example of God declaring the end from the beginning, that there is no one in heaven or earth that is righteous except him. All HAVE sinned as Adam sinned, because what we call the future has already occurred from Gods vantage point.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Did you see the post i was responding to? Can you imagine what would happen if one of these guys had any power in this world? If they were able to make laws with their twisted ideas about how the world operates? I don’t want people who think that all himans are evil to have power over others. To be able to make decisions for us based on their beliefs which cannot be proven. I think that is pretty reasonable of me.
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
originally posted by: Woodcarver
I am daily convinced that christians are crazy and should not be given positions of power.
So tolerant of you....
....not.
Oh wait, you’re on their side. You think the punishment for sin is death too?
Does anyone have any way to prove what they are saying? Or is this just a big pat on the back circle jerk? You all seem to relish in accepting bad ideas. That will be religions downfall. You will all make yourselves obsolete in fear of offending your own imaginary ghosts. Step aside and let reasonable people do real work.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
for me to say I don’t know would be reasonable answer.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Gravity. You do know how stars and planets form? This isn’t new science.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Lol, oh my goodness. This is stuff they teach fifth graders man. The sun is supplying the earth with energy. Even though it is in a state of entropy, this energy bathes our entire world as it disipates. Large masses of matter have a proportional gravitational pull on objects which enter it’s field.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: Woodcarver
Anti entropic? You see that huge ball of gas burning in the sky sometimes? You know, the one that powers pretty much every reaction that takes place on this planet? The one constantly adding energy to this world? You ever see that?
originally posted by: chr0naut
Existence of everything, the whole universe, in its incredibly complex and varied form, despite 13.4 billion years of entropy, is a pretty good evidence of something way beyond science.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
originally posted by: Dcopymope
a reply to: Woodcarver
I mean, science tells us that nearly everything evolved from less complex forms. How did that entropy reversal happen and why is it now (measurably) going the other way?
Science is just another mythology, full of nonsense like 'anti-entropic' actions performed randomly by nothing, like the superluminal expansion of the universe, like that a universe-massive super-singularity could actually ever expand (surely it would attract, capture and collapse any existing mass to the singularity, for eternity), like quantum superposition and Pauli exclusion somehow don't negate the idea of creation of that super-singularity from quantum fluctuation. Like a multi-worlds hypothesis which jibes against the measurable fact that energy can neither be created nor destroyed (it would have to be infinitely creatable to bifurcate the existing universe into new ones all the time).
And, of course, you'd see Christianity and Islam as essentially the same.
That big ball is spraying out all its energy into space. Distributing and dissipating itself. It is the very engine of entropy.
The energy that it emanates from it, once went into it. The Sun does not 'make' energy, it converts some of the mass to energy through nuclear fusion.
When it has consumed itself and flung enough into space, it will go cold. Then it will still loose energy until even its smallest particles dissipate into space in the heat death of the universe.
It has been 'entropying' like this for tens of billions of years. But how did it get its start?
Why did enough 'Big Bang' energy convert itself into matter and then clump enough to attract gravitationally?
The same entropy, at the same rate that is killing the Sun today, despite its condensed mass, were acting upon it before its birth?
You seem to have forgotten that the stuff that is dissipating now must have come from somewhere and assembled rather than dissipating.
How?
... and how did gravity happen?
... and before you say mass causes gravity, that also is a non-answer. How did we get mass?
... and mass is a type of energy, where did the energy come from?
... and before you suggest a singularity, that is just a point of gravity and mass. It doesn't explain their existence but is part the entirely circular non-answer.
How?
For anyone to say that it must be a God is a completely unreasonable answer that has no physical evidence to support it.
except an answer that has no testable results?
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Just as I expected. Satan did nothing wrong!
#hailsatan
What did satan do that was so bad in the bible? The stories say that he led a rebellion against god, but god was doing all kinds of horrible things to humans. Drowning us, burning us, poor Job? Maybe satan saw all of this and heroed up and fought back against god for mistreating us so much? Satan sounds like the hero in those stories.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Just as I expected. Satan did nothing wrong!
#hailsatan
I didn't bother answering you because that is so clearly and obviously not true.
Satan led a rebellion against God.
Satan induced the initial disobedience of mankind.
There are suggestions in the Bible that Satan tried to destroy all of Creation, was defeated and is imprisoned here on Earth.
It is recorded that the fall of mankind introduced death into the world. Since Satan was the cause of the fall, that makes Satan responsible, by his actions, of which he was aware of the consequences, for the death of every single human - ever.
Satan is directly spoken of as a liar, destroyer and a murderer.
He has done as much wrong as he can.
Perhaps you would also like to suggest that Hitler or Stalin were good people, too? I mean, exactly what crimes did they commit?
Starting in the garden in Genesis there is a narrative that is being built and developed .Remember that God has a plan but does not want to show His hand and so in many cases and issues it only becomes obvious after the fact . That is why Paul wrote that if they (the powers of darkness) had know they would not have crucified The Lord of Glory . But right from the get go God talks about the womans seed that would crush his head .
What did satan do that was so bad in the bible?
originally posted by: chr0naut
Perhaps you would also like to suggest that Hitler or Stalin were good people, too? I mean, exactly what crimes did they commit?
The Bible teaches that there is no redemption for the Angels ...
Why not ALL the angels, for example?
The logic is in the grand narrative of redemption and the mystery of sin . Did you ever walk into a movie that was 3/4 done and figure there is something missing to the story ? Or for that matter just missing one scene while making more popcorn .... Such is the Biblical narrative where tiny details are suck big important dot's to connect .
I'm questioning the logic behind it.
originally posted by: Woodcarver
What did satan do that was so bad in the bible? The stories say that he led a rebellion against god, but god was doing all kinds of horrible things to humans. Drowning us, burning us, poor Job? Maybe satan saw all of this and heroed up and fought back against god for mistreating us so much? Satan sounds like the hero in those stories.
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Just as I expected. Satan did nothing wrong!
#hailsatan
I didn't bother answering you because that is so clearly and obviously not true.
Satan led a rebellion against God.
Satan induced the initial disobedience of mankind.
There are suggestions in the Bible that Satan tried to destroy all of Creation, was defeated and is imprisoned here on Earth.
It is recorded that the fall of mankind introduced death into the world. Since Satan was the cause of the fall, that makes Satan responsible, by his actions, of which he was aware of the consequences, for the death of every single human - ever.
Satan is directly spoken of as a liar, destroyer and a murderer.
He has done as much wrong as he can.
Perhaps you would also like to suggest that Hitler or Stalin were good people, too? I mean, exactly what crimes did they commit?
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
originally posted by: chr0naut
Perhaps you would also like to suggest that Hitler or Stalin were good people, too? I mean, exactly what crimes did they commit?
Honestly that would be in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. I say that having confidence neither of us believe Hitler, Stalin, or their ilk, were/are good people. Some people do believe that they were, however. Hitler especially. You and I are able to look at Hitler and history, and see that he was most certainly not a good man. How did we draw these conclusions? Perhaps a silly question to ask, because to most it is plainly obvious.
So is it a matter of, actions speak louder than words?
Is Hitler bad, because of his actions? Or his words? Or both?
If at the end of the day, his actions, speak louder than any words.. why does the same logic not apply to God? Hitler conned the bulk of nation into believing his ideologies were right. Which justified his actions in the minds of his supporters.
That is exactly what people do with the Old Testament. "They were sinners".. "God knew they would sin eventually".. "Their bloodline would have had sinners"...
So God was justified?
But hey Hitler only killed 3 million Jews give or take. He's the real villain.
A drop in the barrel when it comes to God's tally. And you know what? Who are we to say the Holocaust and Hitler wasn't God's way of punishing the Jews for rejecting Jesus. I mean it is his m.o. after all.
For the record, screw Hitler and the Final Solution.