Wells Fargo CEO admits he won’t use his tax windfall to create more jobs

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If wages and purchasing power increases in a relevant way in the next 12 months I will circle back and thank you for predicting a miracle that no economist left or right predicts. It would be counter to the entire history of economies in the world.

As it stands, this looks like smoke and mirrors to obscure Corporations, who were indisputably already making record breaking profits, paying less taxes and amassing more money for their executives and the investor class.

originally posted by: zupdo

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

Because temporary corporate tax breaks will not break the stagflation that the nation seems to have been dealing with.

The stagnation the nation has been dealing with is 100% linked to stagnate wages and accelerating disparity in distribution of income.

The middle class drives spending and the economy, not corporations.

Corporations have been CRUSHING IT in profits the past 5 years. RECORD numbers.

Why do you think MORE is going to change something?

Unemployment is very low already.

The issue is that the spending class/middle class is shrinking and what remains doesn't have the money or buying power to drive the economy.

Believe whatever you like, but that is the problem and giving MORE to corporations makes things worse, not better.

Correct me if i am wrong...but we are seeing the tax deal already result in positive wage growth. Isn't that exactly what is needed to move the economy?

Define wage growth? There are 130 Million people in the USA employed full-time.
www.statista.com...

Had we not given them that tax break, do you expect wages would have grown?

Take home pay would have? As it stands a few corporations raised the minimum wage. A drop in the bucket compared to the broad and comprehensive breaks that could have been given to everyone in the lower 60% of earners. As a bonus, those earners would have had money to spend and it would have sincerely spurred the economy rather than this fleeting dog and pony show.

Im really not understanding where you are coming from here. Other than you just want to see corporations have the screws put to them.

RECORD profits the past several years with the vast bulk of the recovery going to corporations and the wealthy.
If the past few years have been suffering by corporations, may we all be as lucky.

This bill fixed a problem that was not broken and gave corporations that have been making record profits MORE.

Are you serious? Take a look around the world. Which country has 35% corporate tax rates? 21% is already too high for my liking. It really should be 15% or so IMO.

We also have more loop-holes. The Average Effective tax rate for Corporations in the USA was 18.6%, significantly less than the 35% rate. Again...record corporate profits in recent years and super low unemployment, the stagnating economy is not due to corporations not having money, it is due to a failing middle class.
This bill does not fix that, it makes it worse.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

And because you seem acquainted with accounting and payroll math...

Something to watch:

Employers are especially confused because the bill says Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service could decide not to change the payroll withholding system until 2019, a move that could mean some workers have a lot less than they actually owe withheld from their checks under the new law. Some could end up facing tax penalties.

www.politico.com...

originally posted by: soberbacchus


30k people working for a bank getting a pay bump to 15hr (a wage they should have been making a decade ago to keep up with rising costs) is not going to change anything.

That particular set of 30k people. You are not encompassing the entire picture of the national tax law, but narrowing it down to that subset of 30k people.

And that 30k people will get an increase of pay that is absolutely going to change things for them. I've banked with WF for years (personal and business). The employees are far, far more excited about it than you are. The teller I talked to yesterday said she stands to see her paycheck increase by 40%. I bet the little boy in the photo on her keyring will appreciate having more cash in the household.

Your only complaint is that the wealthy got their back scratched too. That is petty.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Making more for investors equals driving up price/share. In addition to enriching all the 401k's that draw dividends.

Sure, some rich folks get richer. But the point is this: you know the game is making money off investing...then invest. Play the game, don't complain when you don't play the game yet never win.

a reply to: Southern Guardian


Open your mouths, children, and swallow all of the money that's going to trickle down. There will be so much trickle down that people will need to fall on their knees so they can lick it from the floor.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: soberbacchus


30k people working for a bank getting a pay bump to 15hr (a wage they should have been making a decade ago to keep up with rising costs) is not going to change anything.

Your only complaint is that the wealthy got their back scratched too. That is petty.

It wasn't their back that got scratched and it wasn't a scratching, more like an Asian massage.

My complaint is the idea that the masses can be placated by temporary crumbs while the 'wealthy" abscond with the lions share of 1.5 Trillion added to our national debt.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

Making more for investors equals driving up price/share. In addition to enriching all the 401k's that draw dividends.

Sure, some rich folks get richer. But the point is this: you know the game is making money off investing...then invest. Play the game, don't complain when you don't play the game yet never win.

I am absolutely winning big under this bill.
It must seem alien to some that self-interest does not rule everyone.
The greater good and the least amongst us and all that..
It's my religion, but I am not religious.

I even have a big aching soft spot for the desperate Trump Voters that gambled on radical change.
It's why I find this bill horrific.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

Making more for investors equals driving up price/share. In addition to enriching all the 401k's that draw dividends.

Sure, some rich folks get richer. But the point is this: you know the game is making money off investing...then invest. Play the game, don't complain when you don't play the game yet never win.

Been playin the game and done ok but...I'm out. Trickle down has never ever favored wall st. I can't take another ass kicking like I suffered in 08.

This is going Nation wide, believe me and it's gonna be sad, really really sad.

www.bloomberg.com...

I know the faithful think Trump/GOP is the Godlike economic 2nd coming....i guess we'll see, eh? I can't trust anyone that drinks 12 diet cokes a day.

The duke said it best....

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

Making more for investors equals driving up price/share. In addition to enriching all the 401k's that draw dividends.

Sure, some rich folks get richer. But the point is this: you know the game is making money off investing...then invest. Play the game, don't complain when you don't play the game yet never win.

Been playin the game and done ok but...I'm out. Trickle down has never ever favored wall st. I can't take another ass kicking like I suffered in 08.

This is going Nation wide, believe me and it's gonna be sad, really really sad.

www.bloomberg.com...

I know the faithful think Trump/GOP is the Godlike economic 2nd coming....i guess we'll see, eh? I can't trust anyone that drinks 12 diet cokes a day.

The duke said it best....

I have been a big fan on Index Funds the past 5 years and done great.
Last month I moved to money markets.
Thinking about gold if I can skip the hype and scammers.
Another 2007 is around the corner.

Edit to add: This is economics, not politics. In fairness, pretty sure the economy was due for a contraction if either HRC or Trump got elected. It's who is at the helm when it happens that determines the severity and length of the downturn. 3rd quarter 2018 is my best prediction. 1 quarter of wait and see optimism. 1 quarter of "is this real", but by August 2018 the slide will be undeniable. Just my opinion.

originally posted by: icanteven
a reply to: Southern Guardian


Open your mouths, children, and swallow all of the money that's going to trickle down. There will be so much trickle down that people will need to fall on their knees so they can lick it from the floor.

Horse and sparrow economics is what they called it in the late 1800's.

Feed a horse enough oats and the sparrows have something to pick from the horses droppings.

Alas, the great Robber Barrons fed on the policy and then the great depression ended the party.

I have robber barron ancestors...scrap books full of thank you letters from politicians, even a president.

History repeats itself.

a reply to: soberbacchus

actually if your buying gold right now your about to take a loss as the purchasing power of the dollar is about to increase when gdp hits another 3.5-4% growth after the tax cuts the Fed will raise interests rates higher than it's previous raises last year

oh and what that means is foreign investors will be looking to get into the dollar before the fed raises rates and invest here due to the lower tax rates

that increases demand for the dollar which means it increases in value from both the increased demand and higher interests rates

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: soberbacchus

actually if your buying gold right now your about to take a loss as the purchasing power of the dollar is about to increase when gdp hits another 3.5-4% growth after the tax cuts the Fed will raise interests rates higher than it's previous raises last year

That there is some optimistic thinking.
Not saying you are wrong, but definitely not putting my money behind that.

a reply to: soberbacchus

welp, in six months when the dollar is stronger and the fed raises interests rates we can discuss it again then

a reply to: soberbacchus

I have been a big fan on Index Funds the past 5 years and done great. Last month I moved to money markets. Thinking about gold if I can skip the hype and scammers. Another 2007 is around the corner.

I like to play the Au/Ag futures game some but I'm gonna take my stake and head out to the NA casino holdem rooms and find a table with drunk old men; safer than the mkt currently imo.

a reply to: soberbacchus


I had never heard of sparrow economics. It's certainly a good description of the new tax bill.

It's Herbert Hoover all over again.

a reply to: soberbacchus

No, not Primera. Although I believe they have an agreement with them. I honestly don't know the specifics of it all. I only know that our rates went through the roof and out benefits scraped the bottom of the barrels once the ACA kicked in and now, this year, they didn't change again.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: soberbacchus

No, not Primera. Although I believe they have an agreement with them. I honestly don't know the specifics of it all. I only know that our rates went through the roof and out benefits scraped the bottom of the barrels once the ACA kicked in and now, this year, they didn't change again.

I understand. BCBS Primera is likely the network provider aka when you visit a hospital or doctor BCBS Primera is in network and the doctor has agreed rates.

Politics aside, whether it affirms or conflicts with your worldview, your rates with BCBS Alaska are stabilized due to the re-insurance program Alaska put in place and that program is made possible due to ACA.

The concept that you get your insurance out of state from an out of state employer doesn't compute. Cuz your doctors and hospitals are in-state, thus your insurer needs to be in-state with in-state agreements with those hospitals and doctors.

BCBS does that via Primera which is owned by BCBS.

You can reason for yourself what happens after this with the mandate repealed and subsidies and ACA stabilization legislation dropped today from the budget bill.

I don't need to convince you of anything. By the end of 2018 you will see an uptick in rates that will stun you (in my opinion) but no reason to debate here. Time will follow the numbers. You can mock me in 12 month if I am wrong by some absurd reality I am unaware of. I actually hope I am wrong, you don't deserve to pay painful rates to live.

originally posted by: icanteven
a reply to: Southern Guardian


Open your mouths, children, and swallow all of the money that's going to trickle down. There will be so much trickle down that people will need to fall on their knees so they can lick it from the floor.

Taft was my great grandfathers man. My G-Grandfather was on the nomination committee. I have correspondence between the two regarding tariffs and other business my GG needed done. Pics with cigars hanging from mouths, dinner invitations. Taft set the stage for the roaring twenties.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
I actually hope I am wrong, you don't deserve to pay painful rates to live.

Herein lies one of the benefits of this bill, I no longer am legally forced to pay those painful rates to live. Personally, I don't get out of my insurance what I've paid into it. I don't have a history of seeing doctors and what I do have in my history has amazingly fallen under the deductible portion, so my benefits have been nill. My only benefits seen have been when my two kids were born, insurance saved me a mint on both of them, but otherwise it has routinely cost me far more than I've gotten from it. When my kids are old enough to be on their own, another 10+ years down the road, I will likely drop all but catastrophic insurance.