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Trump Supporters Believing Their Own Lies.

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posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: ShutUpU

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I keep seeing this and I am starting to find it both frustrating and hugely entertaining. In politics, it is inevitable that everyone is going to basically make stuff up, the right do it, the left do it, those who occupy the middle ground do it, nobody is above this, everyone lies a little bit. However, I think what we are seeing with Trump supporters is reaching a new level, it’s like they have created their own propaganda and are the only ones who ironically believe it.

The right, the Trump supporters have coined this new medical condition known as “Trump Derangement Syndrome” to describe the mental state of anyone who does not worship the ground their orange god walks on. I have honestly read some people online who seem to belief that this is a genuine mental health condition. There are other misconceptions that the right like to push that are just untrue, they have created this silly idea that those who oppose Trump think “you”; the Trump supporter must be racist because you’re a straight white male who supports Trump. Again, utter nonsense, it’s just a mechanism for them attempting to occupy the moral high-ground, “look at those leftists trying to call us all racists”. The only problem with that is that it’s simply not true and the only ones who seem to believe it are the Trump supporters. They do the same with Clinton, they seem to have bought into this fallacy that anti-Trump equals pro-Hillary. Again, that is just right-wing propaganda that only the right believes.

Now speaking of Hillary, this is again another area where the right belief their own propaganda, don’t get me wrong I don’t like Clinton. With that said however, I have recently read some nonsense that the Clintons had killed over 150 aids and where running around abusing kids and raping everyone they could. Honestly if your belief all of the crap that the right has pumped out about Clinton then she is the anti-Christ. There are plenty of reasons to hate Hillary Clinton without having to make up all this kind of crap, if anything it only undermines your position on her when you start to believe the lies that your side made up to turn people against her.

This can be seen time and time again, Trump supporters believe their own propaganda, they seem to be the only ones who belief the BS that they are shovelling. I keep reading them harp on about how must the economy has been boosted under Trump and unemployment is down. Yet they never seem to address the fact that this has happened on the back of the Obama administration and in an economy, that is still working under largely Obama era economic policies. It is a lie to claim that it has been Trump who is responsible for this boost in the economy, again however it’s a lie that only the Trump supporters seem to belief.

Speaking of Obama, I still see lots of Trump supporters who belief this myth that they created that Obama is not American.

This goes on, and on, it can be seen in just about every thread, the right seems to believe their own propaganda. Nobody else does, the rest of us see it for what it is; lies and propaganda. Like I said this can be massively entertaining, yet it can also be really frustrating. They seem to be believing their own propaganda because it validates their political views, even if it is built on lies.

I live in the United States an we were attacked by Russia, including North Korea some years ago (well, it still is happening). Are you a RUSSIAN TROLL (the ones on ABC News?). If you do not live in the US, then shut up
You are damning us to hell if you do not support Trump on fighting Russia. Russia is laughing at us. I do not want to be controlled by some #ed up person like Putin. So suck you own.



So, the bots and Ivans are now swarming here, too, huh?

Whoever or whatever you are, you're quite obviously not an American, not in syntax, views or even consistency.

So, your call to "support Trump on fighting Russia" will fall on deaf ears, especially with Trump, who not only will not fight Russia, but Putin happens to be the one person on Earth that Trump is apparently incapable of insulting. He's insulted every Republican on the national level at some point, insulted the men and women in his intel community, insulted the leaders of NATO, but nothing but syrupy praise and love for Putin. So, you'll excuse some of your "fellow good Americans" for not adhering to your call to support Trump, Ivan.




posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Scrubdog

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Scrubdog

Unfortunately then SD, you don't sound like most Democrats, certainly not anything we were hearing from Congress from the opposition. I'm sure a more bipartisan tax plan we can have, the best it is for America. I would suggest, that for "big deals" like taxes, healthcare, immigration, we pressure both sides to work with each other better. It's in ALL our interests.


Actually, I blog a lot on Daily Kos, about the most liberal (and intellectually sound) Dem site out there and I think you'd find that a majority of democratic voters are like me, looking for pragmatic solutions to problems while respecting each person's perspective. The left knew/knows that - though American companies are posting record profits, unemployment is almost at maximum employment and the stock market is at record highs (all of which was true when Obama left office and continues to be true today), many were left out of the "recovery" and something needed to be done - we knew that. Corporate taxes could've been a gateway into some real solutions for that next stuff needing to be done.

Our corporate tax rate itself was too high and we knew it. But, given the complexity of what can be written off, everyone knows that the exact rate was near meaningless.

I'd have lowered the rate and made further write offs dependent upon things that specifically decrease public spending. Do you pay your employees enough such that a full time worker - all of them - make above the poverty line? Then a big tax credit for you. Do you offer medical benefits to your employees? Keep going down. Does the effluent of the water you put back into the system exceed the CWA limits? Down down. Offer maternity leave? And on it goes. Anything a company does that decreases the amount of money spent out of the treasury should be returned to that company, encouraged to do more.


The problem is, for all too many, the public good isn't the end goal. The end goal is to help the people that make gigantic corporate campaign contributions, and that's a very small class of people, it's also the class of people with the most money to give away. When that's your core constituency, it shouldn't surprise that the benefits accrue largely to that subset of people.

Trump got some very bad advice. He could have put Democratic politicians in a vice. Many Dem voters vowed that their politicians had to give the "McConnel treatment" to Trump - never compromise on anything, ever, as McConnell did with Obama. Trump should've tested their resolve and broken it by proposing an infrastructure bill, first thing. It was needed, both sides could horse trade and get "something" for their voters, it would've helped us maintain competitivness with the world and it would've stimulated the economy. He never pushed for it, Congress never wrote one, and instead we paid far more for this measely stimulus that we'll get in this tax bill, which will also add tremendously to the deficit.

I don't know who was advising him. I won't go there. But it was a golden opportunity to split the Dems between the ideologues versus those of us who just want to see people's lives improve and don't care who gets credit. He would've also gotten an idea which Republicans would be there for him when needed, and which wouldn't have.

Oh well.

Thank you for the nice reply. I do like to think that we're all Americans. If I saw your car ahead of me slide off the road, I'd stop. I suspect you would, too. We ought to treat each other like that when conversing, IMO.



Finally someone to actually bounce ideas off from the other side.

I don't for the most disagree with anything you said there. My experience online and in person has been, you would be more independent or "a true Liberal" rather than what the Democratic Party has morphed into.

The "be like the Republicans during Obama" train of thought has prevailed along with the "we can never work with Trump" sentiment with most Democrats in Washington. How's that really working for America? I readily admit the Republicans doing that during Obama didn't get us the best legislation possible.

Without meaningful input from both sides we will spend far too much time dismantling the other sides unilateral legislation. There has to be a "truce" where both sides meet at the negotiating table and work on a plan that 60% of each party can support. I know I'm dreaming, but once upon a time we actually did that on the truly important things to all Americans. Both sides give the extremes the keys to the car and they are driving it. We need those Grand Compromises on Education, Taxes, Immigration, Healthcare, Inara structure ect.

Economically we already are at a disadvantage globally just because we are America. Fighting amongst ourselves just makes our competitivness worldwide even a harder task than it is.

Times are fairly good now but we need to keep them rolling by producing optimal polices and that means Bipartisan policies. We all need to be rowing the same general direction at least. These past nine years, probably longer, we have had our two party's rowing in opposite directions , with the stronger one prevailing. How much further would we have gotten if we tried rowing together ?

There's a lot of work to be done and there's at least 3 more years of Trump (sorry, he's not going anywhere Dems).
We can decide to suck it up and work with each other or we can waste 3 years while the rest of the world keeps going forward.

Could the Trump tax Plan been better, sure. It's better than no change and now we have to implement and tweak it. There are still some big pieces we have to add or adjust.

I know it won't happen overnight, but we need to tell our politicians to be adults and work together for the American citizen.

I'd stop my car if I saw you spin out at well.



posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: soberbacchus

Again you cannot answer a simple question. Explain to me how a corporate tax rate cut is going to personally hurt you.


I have answered it repeatedly.
I am not responsible for you inability to comprehend.

The Corporate Tax Cut is good for me and the businesses I own.

You don't seem capable of distinguishing between what is good for me personally and what is good for the nation as a whole.

What is good for the top 5% of the country is not always good for 100% of the country.

Not sure how else to explain the difference between one person and everybody? that would seem pretty basic cognition.

5%, 1% and 40% and 100% are different things.

One person making large sums of money does not mean the economy is doing great.

The income and savings of 5% of the country increasing steadily by greater proportions year after real while the middle class shrinks and the bottom 40% expands is not "good" for the country or the economy.

Something might be broke in you brain if you keep thinking that since someone is doing well then the rest of the country is doing well.



posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: soberbacchus

You have flip flopped on your position and you've tried to back track your way out of it once I exposed your BS. Keep back peddling. It's what the hyperventilating left does.

How obtuse for you to make an absolute statement regarding how well one person is doing relative to others. How the hell did you even arrive at that ignorant statement?

Whatever law you practice clearly is not in high demand. You sound like a disgruntled corporate law attorney in a cubicle who peruses vendor contracts on a daily basis red lining and making changes / insertions you tell yourself justifies your career path.



posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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pavil

Wow, yes it is nice to have someone to speak with from a different political perspective without the cliches and antagonism.

The thing that disappoints me most in this tax bill is that Trump seemingly abandoned the populism that got him elected. I do not like or respect Trump, but I did like that the Republican that talked about the little guy won. I had hoped that he would continue to be a thorn in the side of the establishment and on the favor of the little guy.

Though I agree that the corporate tax rate needed to be cut to remain competitive throughout the world, I would've liked to have seen even greater cuts tied to increases in wages.

Wage stagnation is what truly ails this country, indeed I think it's what got Trump elected (that and other help, but set that aside for now). The angst felt by the blue collar Trump voter is the fact that many middle class or formerly middle class people see the wealthy around them vastly increase their standard of living while the median holds or slips.

In 1965, the minimum wage was $10.65 in today's dollars, nearly 25% higher. Back then, the average CEO made 44x the amount of his average paid worker, today it is 250x. In the 60s, GM was the largest private employer in the United States and the average line worker made $55,000 in today's dollars. Now Walmart is the largest private employer and the average sales associate makes $9.79/hour for the richest family on Earth. Given Walmart's size, they effectively set the wage "field" for all similar companies.

I want a tax code that incentivizes doing the right thing for employees. How many people get $300/month in SNAP benefits all because he or she doesn't get that $300 from Walmart? What about Medicaid? If we can reduce the roles on SNAP by providing incentives to raise wages, that increases freedom to ALL parties, including the worker.

I don't think you're going to get the optimal packages you and I are wanting, though, because the really powerful .01% that controls Congress just got its optimal tax plan. And I no longer see a populism in Trump that he had on the campaign trail. Paul Ryan now says that they're going to come back and cut entitlements, Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security (he is going to do this bc the deficit will explode as the tax code exists now). Trump HAD said "Over my dead body" would he allow Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security to be cut. I hope he sticks with what he said, my respect for him will increase.

But, I don't see the political will in the Republican party to answer to the populist side that won the election for Trump, quite the opposite. I see it here in some Republicans, and that's hopeful, but I don't see it on a national level.


Cheers.


edit on 26-12-2017 by Scrubdog because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-12-2017 by Scrubdog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Scrubdog

Again, not much I disagree with. Trump should stick to his populism.....people say it likes a bad thing. The Democrats should get on board with it as well. It's a winning ticket.

Actually I hope Trump would team up with Sanders and knock out a healthcare deal that would be similar to medicare for all with sound financing of it. A blend of both their ideas, of which each has things of merit. A major piece of legislation that neither party could oppose. I'd love to see Washington's heads spin.

There would have been tons more I would have done with the personal side of taxes. It seemed like the personal side was a way to just pay for the corporate side in some ways. More thought and tweaking of it is needed.

For example, we used to have big energy efficiency credits for things like furnaces ect...big ticket items that would make a difference , not only in energy savings but manufacturing of them, installing them ect. Then the money dried up in Congress for them. It was a great plan that achieved multiple goals at the same time and benefited the average American, big manufacturing and mom and pop self employed contractors.

I would have passed more tax savings down from the top tiers and spread it more to the masses, if solely for that's where the votes are but for more altruistic reasons actually.

It's a step in the right direction, but it could have been a leap.



posted on Dec, 26 2017 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: soberbacchus

You have flip flopped on your position and you've tried to back track your way out of it once I exposed your BS.



You are either drunk or stupid, but I suspect both?


Never once have I changed my postion. YOU kept asking how the bill hurt me and I explained every time that the bill hurts the rest of the economy and populace, but not me. It helps me financially, but I don't "need" it.



Whatever law you practice clearly is not in high demand. You sound like a disgruntled corporate law attorney in a cubicle who peruses vendor contracts on a daily basis red lining and making changes / insertions you tell yourself justifies your career path.


You are bizarrely confused. Grasping at vitriol, but can't find your ass from a whole in the ground.
Psst..I am not an attorney and haven't posted anything, ever, to suggest I am.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: soberbacchus


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....you've officially bored me. Keep on back peddling though !



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