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I'm fine with the government taxing everyone but me

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posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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Liberal, Conservative and even some Libertarians in today's world have this sentiment sadly. They think that taxes should be raised on every demographic that doesn't represent them.

Great idea.

Democrat's (now socialist) want things like power and cable services owned by the government, which really isn't a bad idea considering where our economy is going however we can't trust humans and centralized systems give humans power. Inevitably that power will corrupt or be corrupted by an individual and abused. Precisely why socialism will fail eventually and why centralization won't work.

The Democrat's tend to want to increase government size by increasing regulations and collecting higher tax rates from wealthier individuals. Mainly because Democrat's are not the wealthier individuals themselves (not all but as a general rule the Democratic party has been composed of mostly working class).

Conservatives or Republican's kind of believe the opposite. They believe that alleviating taxes on them will increase their investment power and therefore benefit the economy more. Not sure they are correct on that one however they believe that they shouldn't pay the majority of taxes because they are above it essentially. They don't want to be held responsible for the government they feel is just unnecessary and in the way.

Either way regardless of political affiliation a major theme I have been encountering is everyone seems to think that someone else should bear more of a burden when it comes to infrastructure and taxes.

Somehow we need to make reducing the size and scope of government and getting rid of all pensions plans and all the fantastic benefits everyone who works for government get's and alleviating the tax burden on everyone. That's the solution. We have the internet we can mobilize more people faster to solve social and societal issues using freedom and the free market without forcing people to do it with larger more powerful government using EXTORTION or threat of violence.




posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

No.

It's not that people on the more conservative, libertarian side completely disbelieve in taxes. It's that we think there should be a threshold at which government should not be able to raise the taxes any more on any entity regardless of perceived means.

To continue to punitively raise and tweak taxes because you want to pay for this or that creates segments of haves and have nots in society and lets government pick "winners" and "losers" through tax code, something it was never supposed to do. That was always a market function.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. Talking about taxes without talking about the cartels and monopolies gouging the consumer is ignoring HALF of the equation!!!!



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

We should really not be talking about tax cuts till that little $20,000,000,000,000 debt gets paid off. But most adults are pestilent children that want what they want and want it now. And we elect leaders that cater to the conservs and libs but in this case they are both the same.

We need to pay the piper. And a little pain now will keep our children's America strong and in a leadership position in the world. But that is out of the question. Let's go shopping.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

There are no free and fair markets in this country. There's all kinds of legislation creating barriers to enter the market. This is because the lobbyist force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing.


edit on 17-12-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: toysforadults

We should really not be talking about tax cuts till that little $20,000,000,000,000 debt gets paid off.


The debt is irrelevant. What does matter is the deficit and the debt as a percentage of GDP. There's always more to the math than meets the propaganda receiving eye.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
Conservatives or Republican's kind of believe the opposite.


Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. If you think otherwise you are delusional. Corporations ARE the government. Both Republicans and Democrats are puppets of the lobbyists. The lobbyists are puppets of the CEOs. Money talks, everything the voters complain about is BS to the politicians.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Lowering taxes will force the government to figure out how to make cuts.

Cut their funding more. Lower taxes on everybody.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: ketsuko

There are no free and fair markets in this country. There's all kinds of legislation creating barriers to enter the market. This is because the lobbyist force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing.



Stop saying the "lobbyists *force*." Saying that implies the lobbyists have some kind of gun to the heads of politicians. That's not the case. Instead, the truth is that politicians we elect are corrupt and greedy and allow themselves to be bought. They freely make the choice.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: dfnj2015

Lowering taxes will force the government to figure out how to make cuts.

Cut their funding more. Lower taxes on everybody.


I understand you are completely math illiterate so I will try to spell it out for you. Say we eliminating ALL federal taxes tomorrow what would happen? Well, it doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What DOES matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay. Talking about taxes without talking about the cartels and monopolies gouging the consumer is ignoring HALF of the equation.

By getting rid of federal taxes the cartels and monopolies would just raise prices gouging the consumer even harder. Since there is no BIG government intervention protecting the consumer the consumer will be much worse off than when they were paying federal taxes. Again, because math is important! You have to talk about both sides of the equation.

Here's a excerpt from a 1936 speech by FDR about the role of government in fighting the other half of the equation you are refusing to acknowledge even exists:



An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government.


The problem is NOT government. The problem is government is controlled by the lobbyists. And the lobbyists are controlled by the CEOs. The corporations ARE the government. So the consumers are getting screwed!!!! And worker's wages are unfairly kept suppressed.


edit on 17-12-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

First off you called me math illiterate and then went on a diatribe about price gouging without providing an example of the math I apparently know nothing about, that make absolutely no sense.

Secondly the corporations can't lobby government if the government isn't in our business and controlling our economy as much as it is.

Government is the problem.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: ketsuko

There are no free and fair markets in this country. There's all kinds of legislation creating barriers to enter the market. This is because the lobbyist force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing.



Stop saying the "lobbyists *force*." Saying that implies the lobbyists have some kind of gun to the heads of politicians. That's not the case.


I agree there's no gun. There something much more power than a gun. MONEY. Money talks, everything you are saying is BS when it comes to political influence.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: dfnj2015

First off you called me math illiterate and then went on a diatribe about price gouging without providing an example of the math I apparently know nothing about, that make absolutely no sense.

Secondly the corporations can't lobby government if the government isn't in our business and controlling our economy as much as it is.

Government is the problem.


Then once you understand the math you will not be insulted and just agree with me. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: dfnj2015
Government is the problem.


Let me ask you something. Say we had no government at all protecting consumers, workers, and citizens. Do you think the international corporations and CEOs would find it in their hearts to take care of the American people? Or, would they pollute the environment, suppress wages, charge the highest amounts for the lowest possible quality of products and services in order to maximize profits? What do you think would happen?

You don't think politicians don't legislate cartels and monopolies because of influence purchased through lobbyists? What do you think lobbyists do ?



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Did you automatically take something I said to it's ideological extreme as an assumption about what I was putting forth?



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 03:54 PM
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The problem is NOT government. The problem is government is controlled by the lobbyists. And the lobbyists are controlled by the CEOs. The corporations ARE the government. So the consumers are getting screwed!!!! And worker's wages are unfairly kept suppressed.
a reply to: dfnj2015


1000% correct



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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All income tax should be abolished.

Including property taxes.

Just think of the economic jump that would create, and job growth.

But hey the state thinks they can spend your money better than you can.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 05:11 PM
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The poor don't get taxed, they don't even have to file.

I'm fine with that.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Why just you? are you Important? Let me guess, you have more Jacks. Yes?




posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 05:14 PM
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You are wrong about socialists - they ARE the ultra rich. At least the ones pushing agenda's are. Socialism is a two-tier society. The very few ultra-rich rulers, and the very many dependent poor put to work to provide for the needs of the very few ultra-rich.


edit on 17/12/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



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