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I totally misunderstood Jesus' words because of language conflicts of time and translation.

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posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 05:31 AM
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"Trying to use words, and every attempt
Is a wholly new start, and a different kind of failure
Because one has only learnt to get the better of words
For the thing one no longer has to say, or the way in which
One is no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture
Is a new beginning, a raid on the inarticulate
With shabby equipment always deteriorating"

That quote is from TS Eliot's Four Quartets' "East Coker". TS Eliot was a very devoted Christian with faith that shines throughout his poetry, prose and letters consistently. His faith, as a very intelligent, intellectual, educated man has been a source of great power to me, knowing a mind and soul like his was humble enough to recognize Christ. T S Eliot wrote many times about how words can not stand still in time. Their definitions even shift and they fall in and out of use or are forever forgotten. In translation he insisted that even with translating French or Italian verse into English it was a near hopeless undertaking because the reader would never get the poetry and all its delicate structure, emphases and cultural allusions as an alien from another age, language and culture. Only the very basics of the subject would get to be communicated.

The Bible is full of poetry and song, alongside interpretive prose on the very deepest levels. The language difference between Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and English over a 2,000 year life span is obviously a hundred times the problem of translating a 19th century French poem into 21st century English. The Words of Christ began 2,000 years ago being orally spoken with no written down reportage at the time in a rural place in Aramaic, then written later from memory into Hebrew and Greek, then into Latin and English, over the course of 1600 years (when Martin Luther and the other language Bibles started to appear that were so bitterly opposed by Rome because Rome wanted a Latin monopoly on Scripture to enable deceit of their congregations).

All the above to give you an appreciation of the task of maintaining as best we can the Words uttered from Christ's mouth in Galilee 2000 years ago in so many languages in our modern world.

I was always confused by something Christ aid about the end times. It is recorded in three of the four Gospels apart from John. Here is Matthew's account:

"Matthew 24: 34-35; 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Jesus ends his whole description of the end times with this summary. It is obvious to us that all these things did not happen during his own generation's time. There have been a few instances where Christ has confused me. Yet it is not Christ that is confusing me; it is the emphasis and the definition of the words in their cultural contexts over the span of two thousand years, through so much copying and translation.

Once I analyzed this problem word "generation" it became evident that the original Greek "genea" has other primary definitions and actual "generation" as in the way we use it today is not the way this word was used in the past. Genetic science has altered the definition emphasis even, perhaps?

Upon further inspection this "genea" word is defined by Strong's dictionary, among many diverse definitions as:

biblehub.com...


b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; (Acts 2:40).


This is a great clue because Christ used the phrase "perverse generation" a number of times in the Gospels. He was an angry chap with His own people, even prophesying the doom of towns because they did not listen to him (Capernaum, Chorazin, Bethsaida, et c all of which to this day no longer stand - destroyed by earth quakes).

This is explanation enough to convince me Christ did not use the narrow definition of the word "generation" we recognize today. He was meaning it in the widest sense, not a "generation" specific to time.

Finally, interesting to note that Christ said of the end times that we would all be offended by each other to the point of betrayal and murder. Lol, we are definitely in the end times. Look how easily offended we all are. There is no escape because even a Christian is going to be terribly offended by what they have to witness today and the way they will be treated, as any Muslim, Black Person and so many minorities would, too. I mean, i am bound to be offended when Israel State will not let Jews who believe in Christ make Aliya and when the Pope tells us he has the authority to change Christ's WORD and call it a mistranslation, which it is not. Both these things I have had to deal with in the last week. I guess it's just that slow train comin' and we got to keep turning the other cheek as instructed.

"Matthew 24:10; 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."




edit on 17-12-2017 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 06:25 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

You said Corinth no longer stands and infer that God did this in retribution?

He took his time didnt he? Waiting until 1858!

Aaand then allowing it to be rebuilt, suffering another devastating earthquake in 1928 and then being destroyed by a fire and rebuilt again a few years later.

The City of Corinth survives despite this.. i await your moving of the goalposts keenly.

Stop trying to make stuff fit, it just looks silly



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 06:41 AM
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originally posted by: Revolution9
when the Pope tells us he has the authority to change Christ's WORD and call it a mistranslation, which it is not.

With all due love and respect, the Pope was doing in that instance exactly what you are doing now, and you are both right.
The problem is that words change their meanings, or pick up additional meanings. The result is that traditional translations may become misleading, because modern people understand the word in a modern sense which may not be applicable.
The Pope was pointing out this issue relating to the word "temptation".
You are pointing out a similar issue relating to the word "generation".

You are making a very important verse easier to understand.
Please give him credit for trying to do the same.



edit on 17-12-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

Imagine just for a minute what there would be if there were no words - it does not require any imagination whatsoever - just seeing. Is it possible to see without words?

Don't words just tell stories? Is any story true?
edit on 17-12-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

The bible is the ultimate doom porn. If you don’t like one definition of a word, you can always pick another to suit your needs. You can find a phrase in there to fit any point one would like to make. So when anyone looks in there, they can find a bit of poetry that seems like it speaks right to them. But hey, that’s what you get when you read a bunch of made up allegory. Translations aside, you are literally taking the made up words of illiterate peasants as the words of some all benevolent being. Not to mention that those stories don’t even originate from those people. The lack of a written record or even first hand accounts of Jesus make it all very suspect. But not as suspect as the actual claims of his magic doings. Really impossible stuff in there that you believe. Even heroditus exagerated or even made up some of his claims in his stories. Fictional stories were all around. Plenty of cases of exageration in the bible as well as poetic fiction.

The problem is, that some of you see this 2000 year old comic book, and now you think the x-men of the day, Actually existed and used their mutant powers. You don’t see it for the fiction it is.


edit on 17-12-2017 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 06:54 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

'Tis a pity that most of the old text have come through multiple translations and translators. How in the world can any non-expert in that particular area pretend to now know what was intend by the meaning of words not actually recorded at the time. I know. I know, another one of God's little tricks and miracles.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: Aliensun
I know. I know, another one of God's little tricks and miracles.

God is all knowing. What is knowing that there is words appearing?

You think it is you that is knowing that there are words appearing - but you (the body/mind/character) is also just appearing.
You may believe that you are capable of doing things but you (the character) are just part of the movie.
No one can change what appears on the screen.
You are the screen on which the movie appears - you are not a particular thing appearing on the screen.
The screen never goes anywhere - it is the unconditional space which allows all to appear.
edit on 17-12-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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An even bigger issue is the huge amount of written "books" concerning God and Jesus and the Disciples which never made it into any Bible.
The King James version, the Catholic Bible and so many others were put together by men, not a God.
You are also correct that the Bible has gone through thousands of years of varying translations.
How is it possible that modern religions can possibly take them literally?
Not to be judgemental (a serious offense to Christians) but it's really embarrassing that modern religion is lead by such uneducated, ill-informed leaders who collect huge incomes by passing themselves off as interpreters of the "modern" Biblical "teachings."
It is sad that people in times of a real need for comfort are believing these money-making charlatans.
I feel we are still living in the times of ignorance of the history of religions and too many people sitting on Sunday mornings pouring money into the pockets of "feel good-buy my way to heaven" con-artists.


edit on 17-12-2017 by Justso because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: Justso

The bible and all scriptures are all using concepts to point at the non conceptual.
Investigate 'non conceptual awareness'.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9


I was waiting thru all that to get to the meat:


"Matthew 24: 34-35; 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


"This Generation" refers to now. People live a lot longer today, some are over a hundred. Lots of things written in ancient texts having to do with modern times have come to pass, during their life time.

Imagine what has transpired in this word in the last hundred years.

Stay tuned, its going to get a lot weirder...
edit on 17-12-2017 by intrptr because: spelling



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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The town where Jesus stayed with Peter his called Capharnaum



"Caphar" originally meant a place smaller than a city or town, something like a hamlet or village. It means Nahum's Hamlet. We all know Nahum was a very "hot" Prophet indeed. They do not know why it was called this because it is believed Nahum never came from there.

It is interesting to note that "caphar" also means the toll that was charged by the Turks upon the Christian merchants coming to Jerusalem from Aleppo (Syria). So it could also read as "Nahum's Tax" or "Nahum's Toll". When one considers what Christ pronounced would become of it for not witnessing him and behaving so ignorantly it is a fair play on the meaning.

Do you like my little pun on its meaning?

en.wikipedia.org...


A caphar was a toll, or duty imposed by the Turks on the Christian merchants who carried or sent merchandise from Aleppo to Jerusalem.


www.biblestudytools.com...


one of the numerous words employed in the Bible to denote a village or collection of dwellings smaller than a city (Ir ). Mr Stanley proposes to render it by "hamlet." In names of places it occurs in Chephar-he-Ammonai, Chephirah, Caphar-salama. To us its chief interest arises from its forming a part of the name of Capernaum, i.e. Capharnahum.



edit on 17-12-2017 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: Revolution9

You said Corinth no longer stands and infer that God did this in retribution?

He took his time didnt he? Waiting until 1858!

Aaand then allowing it to be rebuilt, suffering another devastating earthquake in 1928 and then being destroyed by a fire and rebuilt again a few years later.

The City of Corinth survives despite this.. i await your moving of the goalposts keenly.

Stop trying to make stuff fit, it just looks silly


Yes, I corrected it. I had been reading about the discovery of the ruins of Corinth just now. I meant to say "Chorazin". Thanks for picking it up, but it was a literary slip. It only goes to add to my argument how difficult words are, how clumsy we can be when communicating and even plain copying. Lol, I would not have made the best Bible copier, hahahahaha!


edit on 17-12-2017 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 09:50 AM
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You call it doom porn where I see it as the great release from doom, death and destruction
My understanding is that we live, well most people live in a sick twisted horrible world

So you see the end as doom, I see it as the end of doom



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

Maybe this is why people think Jesus will come back. He wasn't clear enough the first time. Time to learn hard way coming, no more mister nice guy.

edit on 17-12-2017 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Revolution9

The bible is the ultimate doom porn. If you don’t like one definition of a word, you can always pick another to suit your needs. You can find a phrase in there to fit any point one would like to make. So when anyone looks in there, they can find a bit of poetry that seems like it speaks right to them. But hey, that’s what you get when you read a bunch of made up allegory. Translations aside, you are literally taking the made up words of illiterate peasants as the words of some all benevolent being. Not to mention that those stories don’t even originate from those people. The lack of a written record or even first hand accounts of Jesus make it all very suspect. But not as suspect as the actual claims of his magic doings. Really impossible stuff in there that you believe. Even heroditus exagerated or even made up some of his claims in his stories. Fictional stories were all around. Plenty of cases of exageration in the bible as well as poetic fiction.

The problem is, that some of you see this 2000 year old comic book, and now you think the x-men of the day, Actually existed and used their mutant powers. You don’t see it for the fiction it is.



Though I am against Calvinism ..... your statements about the bible and God as a whole; make it look correct as if predestination is a reality..... that there are those chosen for heaven and those chosen for hell.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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Do you understand who Jesus is?

Do you understand his words?

You think you understand, but do you really?

Tell me who you think Jesus is first, then we will see how much you understand his words.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: 0racle
Do you understand who Jesus is?

Do you understand his words?

You think you understand, but do you really?

Tell me who you think Jesus is first, then we will see how much you understand his words.


Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi who was crucified because he was a threat to the power structure of the Pharisees. Jesus was a threat because of his populist message with regards to attaining salvation without paying for it from the Temples using the money changers. Expelling the money changes signed Jesus's death warrant.


edit on 17-12-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

How is it you have the authority to spot a mistranslation and the Pope does not? The entire first half of your OP is about the ambiguity of language, particularly in translations. You are the pot calling the kettle black, my man. How very unchristlike of you.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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The people back those days were not dumb, their oral history and written history showed that there were people who got greedy and wanted power and these people took just about everything from the people. These entitled people would lie and cheat and create the rules everyone had to follow.

Sooner or later, when there was no more to gain from the serfs and slaves they began fighting among each other, the elites that is, utilizing the regular people who were brainwashed to do their bidding. They had massive wars where many thousands of males were slaughtered, and sometimes all of the people in the communities they overthrew were slain. All cultures then as now seemed to do that to some extent.

Jesus was a conspiracy theorist, opening people's eyes to what was happening. Just like now, people were convinced to buy things they did not need and not have enough to eat. People were convinced they should not eat some things, meaning the ones controling what was considered pure always profited. Jesus pushed fish as good food, any fish, not only special kinds.

It was as much a scam back then as it is today. Jesus tried to tell us.



posted on Dec, 17 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Revolution9


I was always confused by something Christ aid about the end times. It is recorded in three of the four Gospels apart from John. Here is Matthew's account: "Matthew 24: 34-35; 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

This is what happens to many people who do not read in contextual thought. To understand that one verse of Matthew 24:34 you should go back to verse 21 through verse 34 which explains who this generation is which Jesus is talking about.

What Jesus is talking about is the generation who is alive as the Great Tribulation begins [verse 21]. This generation is in the future and could become our present generation but not necessarily our present generation. As of now we simply do not know and that is why Jesus gave us specifics or criteria as to when the time is near. So verses 21-34 must be read as one specific thought as to the requirements of the generation of which Jesus meant.

I have read so many people that cite this verse as error in the NT but the error is the reader and not the literature. It does not mean the generation of 1611 AD when the English interpreters interpreted the Greek scriptures into English or even as the Greek scribes were writing the MSS. It simply means that the people who are alive when the Great Tribulation comes and experiences some of those things of the Tribulation, will know that the time is very close for the first resurrection [gathering] of the righteous. It does not mean the end of this world.




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