This net neutrality move seems a good thing.

a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump said it is bad. That is the only reasoning they need.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: Aazadan

Ajit Pai is a real life cartoonishly evil caricature of a corporate toadie. It would be more humorous if literally 99% of us weren't going to be paying more for less internet in the next couple years.

Started off as a bigwig for Verizon.

Appointed to the FCC by Obama.
Appointed by head of the FCC by Trump.

And, how appropriate, many Trump supporters are defending the regulation of the internet - by the government.

They'll realize once it hits their wallet that this was nothing to celebrate about.

I truly do not understand the obsession some have with being pro-government cheerleaders - especially when cheering against their own well-being.

This nation is fueled by greed - and people love it.

People will willingly suffer immensely as long as you convince them it'll also cause those they hate to suffer immensely.

a reply to: Aazadan

Ok. Answer me this question, if these violations were found and addressed prior to net neutrality in 2015, then why wouldn't the same mechanism work now?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump said it is bad. That is the only reasoning they need.

A heck of a lot of people said it long before Trump was a factor....

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: nwtrucker

Without the techno gobbledygook

1. If you pay your ISP for 50 mb download service should they provide that service the best they can? Or should they be legally allowed to slow you down on PURPOSE to 1mb, but continue to charge you for 50mb download speeds , because they want more money from another guy?

Well that is exactly what revoking Net neutrality does.

2. Do you believe in the free market or do you believe its good to give the govt and the corporations control of what you get to see,hear, buy, and who to purchase it from.

Well that is exactly what revoking Net neutrality did. You just gave the legal right to the Gov't and corporations to restrict and determine what you can access.

3. Do you think its a good thing for the MSM to determine what candidate is worthy of positive attention during elections.

Well that is what you will get by revoking Net neutrality. They know what is best for you.

4. The Internet is not a commodity , its a global market place and you have given the US gov't and the most hated companies in America full control to choose the winners and the losers of the biggest global market place.

5. Revoking net neutrality does the opposite of getting the gov'ts dirty fingers away from net neutrality. The gov't and the highest paying corporations now have complete control of the Internet since net neutrality is gone. That is why they have been fighting for this long before Obama came along.

6. Do you enjoy non mainstream sites such as ATS ?

Well you better start paying up to access such sites if they are even allowed to be whitelisted or are included in your selected web package.

7. Net neutrality existed since the inception of the internet and was what allowed it to be such a huge success. It was something that the lazy content non original thinking gov't and big corporations let fall through the cracks . Now they have closed the cracks that allowed the little guys to compete at the same level as the big guys. It was what allowed netflix,google, and amazon to name a few to go from nothing to huge success. Now you will be stuck with the existing Oligarch for the rest of your life and their will be very little ingenuity to come. They don't have to compete any longer they just pay to make sure nobody else gets the bandwidth if they don't play along.

This is like when the GOP and its right wing media convinced the individual republicans that going full commie is a good thing and its ok for big gov't to bailout private industries with tax payers money. The GOP just pulled another fast one on its own followers.
this will be the republicans obamacare.

Every statement you made is Bass-ackwards...Every statement is what we have now, or up to yesterday under Obama's net neutrality...

It will stifle new startups??? Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twittter and dozens of others were started before Obama's net neutrality...Searches are restricted on Google with net neutrality...Facebook removes posts and posters that don't agree with their agenda...And let's not even discuss Reddit...

And then Obama giving control of Our American internet to the anti-freedom United Nations??? You gotta be kidding...That alone is enough to dump net neutrality...

Is big business going to get a discount on high speeds??? Don't know, don't care, as long as my speed is good at a reasonable price...

One thing that I know is that if reverting back to the old days doesn't work out, it will affect all of us and Congress will be forced to make some changes to our benefit...Without giving our internet away to the U.N...

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump said it is bad. That is the only reasoning they need.

A heck of a lot of people said it long before Trump was a factor....

The last time this battle was fought, the nation stood up as one and said " # NO!". Now that Trump is in charge, part of the nation is wavering. Try again.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Follow the money were those people getting money or invested in isp's?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Hmm, so your saying I don't already know what I'm buying? That the actual Yugo isn't known? You know it, I know it. So we aren't buying a ZR-1 are we? We leasing the Yugo, not buying it.

If I really want the Vette and can afford it, I will buy/lease it. otherwise, I will settle for the Yugo....over the UN....for now...

It will be out of your hands. You'll decide you want the ZR-1 and buy it. But then the company you bought it from gets into a contract dispute, and the owner of the road downgrades your car to a Yugo. You're still paying ZR-1 prices, and you still have a ZR-1, it just doesn't function the way you paid for it. And you're locked into that contract.

originally posted by: IscoolEvery statement you made is Bass-ackwards...Every statement is what we have now, or up to yesterday under Obama's net neutrality...

It will stifle new startups??? Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twittter and dozens of others were started before Obama's net neutrality...Searches are restricted on Google with net neutrality...Facebook removes posts and posters that don't agree with their agenda...And let's not even discuss Reddit...

Many to most of those companies started up before the internet got to be as big as it currently is. Amazon is a holdover from the 90's tech bubble burst, for instance. Google started up shortly after that. Facebook came out in the early 00's. The internet was a COMPLETELY different monster back then. Oh yeah, and net neutrality was in effect then too.

Why do I get the feeling that most of the people who are currently against net neutrality's exposure to the internet pre-teens decade was minimal at best?

And then Obama giving control of Our American internet to the anti-freedom United Nations??? You gotta be kidding...That alone is enough to dump net neutrality...

Is big business going to get a discount on high speeds??? Don't know, don't care, as long as my speed is good at a reasonable price...

One thing that I know is that if reverting back to the old days doesn't work out, it will affect all of us and Congress will be forced to make some changes to our benefit...Without giving our internet away to the U.N...

This argument is just so bad... I can't even...

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Willtell
Amazing how the Trump followers keep justifying his corporate flunky moves.

He has made them such dupes it's funny...
And they jerk themselves off into all kinds of intellectual contortions and fruit cake justifications for simple deception and greed.

Seems like you want part of their action....

Nah, I only con the rich and give to the poor

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump said it is bad. That is the only reasoning they need.

A heck of a lot of people said it long before Trump was a factor....

The last time this battle was fought, the nation stood up as one and said " # NO!". Now that Trump is in charge, part of the nation is wavering. Try again.

What gives you the idea the very same thing wouldn't have occurred if Hillary won? Or Bush? Or Sanders?

This has been around a lot longer than Trump and I suspect you know it. Everybody elected to the Presidency needs advisors. No one is expert in all fields. Trump's talents lie elsewhere, without doubt, but don't bother dumping on him when the very crowd that will take advantage of this were also 'anti-Trump'. They all use the same 'experts' and there you have it.

Blame Trump? Yeah, right.

originally posted by: Iscool


It will stifle new startups??? Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twittter and dozens of others were started before Obama's net neutrality...Searches are restricted on Google with net neutrality...Facebook removes posts and posters that don't agree with their agenda...And let's not even discuss Reddit...

The internet was a different kind of place when those companies started. There wasn't the same high demand for fast speeds as there is today. When Obama enacted net neutrality, it did not CHANGE the defacto way the internet was running.

Instead it simply guaranteed that the internet would run the way it had previously -- and that was freely. People saw a change coming -- a change that would have restricted use of the internet and allowed the ISPs to control speeds -- and Net Nuetrality was enacted to make sure those changes could not happen.

And then Obama giving control of Our American internet to the anti-freedom United Nations??? You gotta be kidding...That alone is enough to dump net neutrality...

...One thing that I know is that if reverting back to the old days doesn't work out, it will affect all of us and Congress will be forced to make some changes to our benefit...Without giving our internet away to the U.N...

As others have asked, please explain this UN connection and how exactly the UN would have been able to control the internet under Net Neutrality.

I'm not sure you understand the situation if you think the UN would have been given power to control free flow of information on the internet. Conversely, it is Net Neutrality that actually promotes a freer flow of information.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Everything you just mentioned is incapable of competing in a global marketplace. You can't do things 1000x less efficiently than it can be done in other nations.

No internet would destroy the US GDP and turn us into a 3rd world nation. Actually, even 3rd world countries have internet.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump said it is bad. That is the only reasoning they need.

A heck of a lot of people said it long before Trump was a factor....

The last time this battle was fought, the nation stood up as one and said " # NO!". Now that Trump is in charge, part of the nation is wavering. Try again.

What gives you the idea the very same thing wouldn't have occurred if Hillary won? Or Bush? Or Sanders?

Because I've just spent a year watching Trump sycophants believe and repeat everything he says without question. Something I haven't seen for any other politician. Ever. Democrat or Republican. Though I'm aware of leaders where that is the case. Usually those countries are dictatorships, but anyways, I'm rambling. Trump's supporters terrify me with their gullibility. Especially the most extreme ones.

This has been around a lot longer than Trump and I suspect you know it. Everybody elected to the Presidency needs advisors. No one is expert in all fields. Trump's talents lie elsewhere, without doubt, but don't bother dumping on him when the very crowd that will take advantage of this were also 'anti-Trump'. They all use the same 'experts' and there you have it.

Blame Trump? Yeah, right.

Trump appointed this jackhole to be the head of the FCC. Back during Obama's term whenever something happened under one of his departments we had to hear how it was Obama's fault too because "the buck stops here". So I'm just following protocol and blaming Trump for # that happened under his Presidency.

a reply to: Iscool

Wow . You really have no clue what net neutrality is . Seriously you don't from what you just wrote.

Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twittter and dozens of others were started before Obama's net neutrality.

Exactly . here is the piece you are not seeing. wait for it , wait for it.

Net Neutrality principles existed since the INCEPTION of the Internet way way back even before Obama came along. BTW Al gore did not invent the internet either.

Google ,amazon and the others were able to become a success because of net neutrality. Eitherwise the ISP would have squashed them.

Searches are restricted on Google with net neutrality...Facebook removes posts and posters that don't agree with their agenda...And let's not even discuss Reddit...

What do you think they will do now that you gave the highest bidders the key to the kingdom? They not only control their own websites now , but the whole internet.

One thing that I know is that if reverting back to the old days doesn't work out,

the old days was having net neutrality principles. Not until verizon sued the gov't in 2015 that it temporarily went away for a short period. Then Came reclassification to counter the lawsuit to allow for net neutrality principles to continue.

doesn't work out, it will affect all of us and Congress will be forced to make some changes to our benefit.

Right in fantasy land it works like that , but in reality it doesnt.

Just like the GOP screaming about OBAMACARE as the antichrist for the last 8 year and they get full control and do nothing.

The existing ISP industry rates among the most hated corporations by its customer base year after year and yet they still stay in business. Why because they have the money and power to lobby congress and ensure their monopolistic practices continue.

Without giving our internet away to the U.N..

What in the world is this UN talk with net neutrality?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
A random thought...It's a bad habit. Is it possible the reverse is the goal? That unfettered internet will cause exactly what you say which would open the door to full gov't control to 'correct' it? Perhaps with even more draconian regulations?

Congress (if they can ever pass anything) could write their own regulations and take it out of the FCC's hands, which would cut down on the drama.

More importantly, Congress (maybe the President?) has the authority to break up companies. Think back to the days of dial up internet. That's what an ideal marketplace looks like. In such a market there's 1-2 owners of the lines, which are treated as a utility that needs to be priced fairly, with access to anyone that wants. Then anyone who wants to can connect some servers to those lines, process data, and become an ISP. Back in the dialup days you had roughly 1 ISP for every 1000 people in an area. That's what we need to go back to, but in order to do that we have to break up the telecom companies into an entity that owns the lines as a utility, providers of content (tv, voip, whatever), and access to the network.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I can answer that. There came a time in 2015 when the internet had to be reclassified as regulated under Title II in order for the FCC to have the legal authority to deal with complaints about Comcast charging Netflix extra to avoid throttling. Here is a 2014 article about the Netflix-Comcast deal.

Washington Post

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Thank you for that explanation. You're the only one that has bothered.

So in your electricity analogy, is there laws in place that stops that scenario from occurring?

Yes. It comes with the definition of a utility. Utilities are allowed to charge for a product, but they aren't allowed to charge different rates based on what the service is used for.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Iscool

Wow . You really have no clue what net neutrality is . Seriously you don't from what you just wrote.

Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twittter and dozens of others were started before Obama's net neutrality.

Exactly mcfly . here is the piece you are not seeing. wait for it , wait for it.

Net Neutrality principles existed since the INCEPTION of the Internet way way back even before Obama came along. BTW Al gore did not invent the internet either.

Google ,amazon and the others were able to become a success because of net neutrality. Eitherwise the ISP would have squashed them.

Yes. This.

People seem to think that Obama's Net Neutrality rules changed the way the internet was working. Net Neutrality did NOT change the defacto way internet business was being done.

What the Obama era Net Neutrality rules DID do was to ensure that the internet would CONTINUE to work the way it had always been working. It wasn't making the free flow of information different; it was making sure that the free flow stayed free flowing.

Now that net Neutrality is no longer, internet providers are now free to change things and control the speeds that information moves along the internet.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Is that almost an inevitablity? If so, what's the big deal? This probably speeds that process up, yes?

No, it's anything but an inevitability. Telecoms have an absurd amount of power and leverage, and we're talking about something that would require extensive political will in order to implement. Look at how hard breaking up the Bells was. Telecoms are even stronger than that.