losing my (political) religion

Perhaps your apathy stems from the inability to use capital letters?

However, to answer your point. Coverall politics is for the numbed of mind. If you are getting turned off politics then try to follow specific causes. For me it's rights of access (boring English thing to do with public rights of way), and rural life and wildlife. People who campaign for causes come from all backgrounds but share a common purpose.

The people who partook in the mass trespass on Kinder Scout back in 1932 were the real "social justice warriors".

originally posted by: fiverx313
how do you stay engaged and try to make a difference when you lose that spark?

For one, I engage in debates in as rational a manner as you can, even when you bring with you a bias or ideology.

One thing that I notice with your responses on ATS is that you're very passionate, but to the point where you really lose any rationale behind what you're trying to say. You seem very quick to divide people into catagories and disregard anything said in response to your points if they differ.

Looking at myself, for example--yes, I certainly make a comment here and there that cites "the left" or "the right," but for the most part, I try to cite facts over ideology, or facts that explain my ideology.

Look at how you responded in this thread today:

originally posted by: fiverx313
good thread, OP... since they can't get away with those insane 'literacy' tests any more, voter ID laws are the new way to suppress the vote of people you don't think will vote for you. you notice it's only conservatives that push for stuff like this, after all...

originally posted by: fiverx313
i do also really enjoy that the first spin conservatives jump to is 'no YOU'RE racist for saying this is racist!'

originally posted by: fiverx313
threads like this really make me wonder what some conservatives find so threatening about acknowledging reality...

Now, admittedly, those are the more provocative posts, but given that the last one wasn't even in response to anyone, just you taking the opportunity to take a shot at conservatives, you might start to realize why you think that none of this matters.

Could it be that you tend to boil down your comments to things that have zero substance?

I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of the same from time to time, but every time I see your lovely avatar (I really do like it) preceding a comment of yours, I already have an expectation of the spin/bias that will follow, and 9/10ths of the time, I'm correct. Maybe if you were not so predictable in your approach to everything, and did so in such a terse way much of the time, you might elicit better dialogue and debate out of people.

conservative responses are welcome, i'm sure some of you have some insights based on how you got through the obama years.

I have a unique view on it (also, I'm not a conservative)--I voted for Obama in 2008, but I did not in 2012, and have come to view his presidency in a poor light. In that transition, I went from Obama voter, to really being against (and vocally so) his policies and ideas in a very abrasive way, to finally realizing that such immature ways of communicating only do two things: Reflect poorly on my intelligence level, and are unnecessarily rude to other people.

That final realization has kept me, for the most part, feeling like discussing topics is worthwhile. It's when others don't return the favor is where I lose patience, but I try very hard not to initiate conversation from that impatience.

Point being, it may be worth changing your approach to initiating discussion with others instead of, say, taking the approach of degrading and insulting an entire group of people like conservatives (who, like all groups, are compiled from individuals who have different beliefs on different topics).

Hopefully you take all of this as constructive criticism and not as just one large jackass comment

Like I said, I'm not immune to much of this from time to time, but I've learned to suppress it much of the time in the spirit of trying to have a decent discussion--otherwise, what's the point of even commenting?

a reply to: fiverx313

I can relate, which is why I think I might have something to offer here.

Stay focused on your values and challenge yourself to explore whether you are painting by numbers or truly behaving in accordance with them.

The most disturbing thing I have seen in this cycle is the scorched-earth demonization of political opponents. This country used to promise an 'agree to disagree' cultural mentality. If you were American, you might not like or agree with some people, but you'd defend with your life their right to hold opposing viewpoints.

It appears that is no more. The left and right want to pick clear winners and losers, obliterating the other side.

In my view, our country suffers from a kind of cultural immaturity...a very dangerous one.

Hopefully, we will eventually relearn what was once a distinctly American value...real tolerance of differing ideas.

a reply to: loam

Stop viewing people who disagree with you as the enemy and start simply thinking of them as people who have a different point of view.

There are some people here who I am not terribly fond of, but that doesn't mean they are my enemy or that I hate them or even dislike them all that much. Most folks here I enjoy interacting with even if I disagree with them. I enjoy it all the more when I feel like even when I disagree I do understand why they hold their points of view on a subject. Doesn't necessarily mean I will change my mind at all and we may still have a fractious discussion over a topic, but I will happily exchange recipes or jokes or discuss TV or movies with them in other threads.

originally posted by: fiverx313
so... i've always been a very, very passionate american leftist. but in the last year i've gone from disappointment in my fellow citizens, to horror, to numbness. i still read the news and have opinions about what's going on but i just can't bring myself to think any of it matters very much.

in some ways that's kind of a relief... taking on the burden of all the terrible things that have been going on was getting to be too much. but at the same time i feel very strange getting so disengaged. i used to look down on that mindset of not even giving an eff about any of it and thought that was a large part of the problem... but i'm slowly getting there myself. kind of losing hope in america... or americans.

how do you stay engaged and try to make a difference when you lose that spark?

disclaimers: i didn't post this in the mudpit, so i'd appreciate constructive responses.

conservative responses are welcome, i'm sure some of you have some insights based on how you got through the obama years.

dumb, mean-spirited jackass comments will be ignored.

comments arguing that i'm overreacting when i say terrible things have been happening will also be ignored. believe what you want but don't try to gaslight me -- this thread is not your bully pulpit.

I'm in the same boat. I still lean left, but for many a year I was probably a bit more partisan relatively, and was more critical of right wingers and barely of the Democrats. That started to change with Obama, Libya, and Syria. I was one of the few liberals I knew who tried to be consistent across the Bush and Obama presidencies in criticizing war and foreign policy.

But, it really was identity politics and how extreme it's become that began to make me disenchanted with mainstream democrat politics currently. 90% of my liberal friends, which is a lot of people, could be called sjws. I've been called one many times .

Then, this last election cycle between complicit media coverage, shady dnc primary dealings, and the Russian hysteria, really made me feel like there are major problems in the mainstream liberal side too. Watching while numerous people I knew and the media claimed that criticizing war mongering, corporate shill Clinton was "sexist" or even racist because of helping Trump. Meanwhile a majority or my liberal friends and colleagues have acted like complete zombies during all of this, repeating dnc and cnn talking points. That's the worst part for me, disillusionment with a lot of people I know. Some also aren't being as friendly due to the fact I've jerk failing to echo for their chamber.

Long story short, I feel a bit rudderless at the moment. I know that ultimately stepping back and dis identifying from the hysterical right left binary is a good thing. Yes, because of all this, like you I've temporarily lost the spark and motivation. At the same time, although lined with sadness there's a certain amount of mental freedom and relief.

I guess the funny thing is that Liberals and Conservatives in government both want to give the tax money to other people, and for the most part, they're the same people. Sure, there are a few social issues in play, but for the most part those are handled locally and change because demographics change.

The big fighting arena is where the money goes and there's a lot of it. Liberals will try to convince you that "poor people" or "minorities" will benefit the most under their administration. Conservatives will tell you that the best place for the money to go is toward the corporations and manufacturers who keep the country running. But honestly, no matter what the parties say, the bulk of it goes where it always goes -- into the pockets of the nation's wealthy elite; the ones running the show.

That's why I try not to even bother with politics anymore. It doesn't matter who the Emperor is to the slobs like me living my life out building the Great Wall.

a reply to: Blue Shift

A lot of truth to this which is why a lot of the system needs to go.

You listen closely and you'll see it's not about smaller government so much as it is about running what we have their way which will be "smarter."

a reply to: ketsuko

Agree with you 100%.

Almost all of the most important people in my life hold political views I completely oppose. But I love and respect each one of them as individuals.

Don't know why such a thing seems like such a challenge to some people.

Repiblicans don't want small government, they just want their kind of big government. For example, a strong global military which most republicans vote for IS big government. Same with law and order type voting, for prisons and police.

Washington Politics is nothing but negativity. I don't know how those people can live that kind of life full of ignorant compliance to the deceivers who really run our country. These politition must have signed some contract in blood, they now are polarized beyond rationality and are worried more about their party than about our countries future and our citizens survival.

I am addicted myself, trying to promote people to see we do not need to pick a side. Both sides are corrupted, lately the left is getting pretty bad. Maybe things will reverse in the next twenty years, but I doubt if the system will ever be an honest and impartial system.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Repiblicans don't want small government, they just want their kind of big government. For example, a strong global military which most republicans vote for IS big government. Same with law and order type voting, for prisons and police.

That's what I mean. If you listen, it isn't about making it smaller. A lot of each side only wants to run what's there "smarter." There are very few who actually talk about making it smaller, and there are never enough of them to make any real difference.

a reply to: rickymouse

Oh, I can.

They get rich. No one comes out of Washington poor. And if someone does, it's because you've actually found an honest man or woman.

a reply to: fiverx313

how do you stay engaged and try to make a difference when you lose that spark?

Go local. Nor does it have to political.

I was active locally, but since I'm moving in the near future, I've cut back a bit, but will pick it back up after I resettle.

Or, just take a break, you don't have to be at it constantly, that leads to burn out--which sounds like at least part of your issue.

These things run in cycles. I've seen Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, now Trump. Things change, always do. One thing remains constant though, you have to be the change you want, and take people with you.

originally posted by: seagull
Go local.

So right.

originally posted by: ketsuko
A lot of truth to this which is why a lot of the system needs to go.

Unfortunately, the only people in a position to change the system are those who have gotten rich from the system the way it is now. They're not motivated to change it.

a reply to: fiverx313

Politics and political engagement is very important for a civil society. Remember that, with all the claims of division, polarization, and partisanship, the opposite is the mind-numbing consensus of uniformity found throughout dictatorships, theocracies, and uniparty political systems.

I would argue the numbness you feel is a reaction to the sounds, feelings, and images of a free society. We have to overcome it, celebrate it, lest we fall back into modes that may be comforting, but are wholly antithetical to all we've built up this far.

a reply to: fiverx313

Maybe you have come to realise that being left or right isn't the answer?


It can be strange to see yourself in opposition to the side you thought you were formerly a part of.

To give you an example, I am pretty much Old Labour, from the UK. I was a RMT union member for 20 years and pretty passionate about workers rights, equality in the workplace, Personal freedom, free healthcare and education, all that sort of thing.
I have always been very anti the EU like the vast majority of old Labour party types.

Along comes Tony Blair, a Labour Prime minister. He and his party when in government did not repeal one single Thatcherite, ant union law, they brought in something like 4000 new laws to criminalise the ordinary citizen and increase the state's control over our lives, Where they were against membership of the EU without a referendum, now they were so pro EU they wouldn't even put the Lisbon treaty to a referendum.

Then you have the whole illegal war thing and suddenly, the left isn't a place I belong to anymore. I am still not a card carrying Tory, but my politics have become fluid, there are issues important to me and I will vote for the person who gives me the most confidence that they will address those issues and to hell with what party they are from.

a reply to: fiverx313

how do you stay engaged and try to make a difference when you lose that spark?

Short answer: 1) I focus on the issues that affect my family & community, and 2) I've accepted the fact that I can't help everyone (and I especially can't "save" people from themselves).

But I can never really "lose that spark" since I live in a republican controlled state where they're constantly pulling far-right crap at the state or local level. So there's always some new BS to deal with.

originally posted by: paraphi
Perhaps your apathy stems from the inability to use capital letters?

i do know where the shift key is, i just don't care

lots of good posts, i've read them all and am giving each one due consideration. it's helpful to know that many of you are in the same boat with me all across the spectrum, because i know how passionate and sincere you all are.

i appreciate the thoughtful speculation as to my particular issues, the larger societal issues, a broader perspective, the relevance of any of it, and possible solutions. many of you are directly contradicting each other, but i can't help but think there's at least a seed of truth in nearly every response.

thank you all for your input.

a reply to: fiverx313

I eliminate partisan politics by being pro-freedom.

Be it legalization, gay marriage or owning a bazooka.

Freedom baby.

Freedom.