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Trump Administration moving to allow Restaurants to keep workers tips

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posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Yeah It's a complicated solution, and I feel like the right idea is there. The implementation is just being done poorly by letting this loophole slide.




posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: Devino

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Where the hell do liberals get this crap,and the mindless fools that perpetrate ignorance,why is it people on here post something they never read,and mindless believe,this world is screwed with idiots letting their world slip way,while helping the enemy
People just love to hate, don't they? I sometimes find it rather hard not to get caught up in all of the vitriol. In defense of the OP and others posting here this proposal isn't an easy read. Have you read it? I have found instruction manuals that were more interesting.


Here ill simplify things for you..

www.dol.gov...

Notice the employer is not legally able to withhold tips unless the employee agrees to start a pool and being paid at least minimum wage. It isnt normally used except under special circumstances because by law if they dont make tips the employer is obligated to make up the difference. Most employers dont want to take on this responsibility and only use it for training. The part you are reading is trying to explain to employers the advantages of providing minimum wages.
J

If you cant see where they discuss this suggest you start reading at the beginning of the section.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 08:32 AM
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originally posted by: Devino
a reply to: SlapMonkey
So if employee's tips subsidize a portion of their wages then this new proposal does not apply. It only applies to those that get at least a minimum Federal wage.

Right, but the "grey area" that I was referencing is called out numerous times in the DOL document--namely, how section 3(m) doesn't address directly employers who pay their employees full minimum wage, but also don't claim the tip credit. It leaves the ability of the employer to do what they will with tips (server keeps, tip pooling, using to subsidize other wages, or whatever) at the whims of different courts, where we've had different rulings that are relatively contradictory to each other.

This proposal seems to exist to address that and regulate it (or de-regulate it, as it seems to be if I read this correctly).


I referred to this section because of some interesting language. Scroll down to the forth paragraph on the top of page 46.

To the extent employers may otherwise make an arrangement to allocate any customer tips to make capital improvements to their establishments (e.g., enlarging the dining area to accommodate more customers), lower restaurant menu prices...

I'm not clear what this would mean. Is this a loop hole for an employer to pocket pooled tip money for supposed improvements and lowering menu prices?

I'm with you on that--it seems unclear if the proposed changes would allow such a thing, or not. I couldn't find anything that showed that it would specifically allow this sort of thing to be done with tips, which is why I said that both titles (the OP and the story) appear to be misleading.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: amazing
This is pretty shady. Waitressing is a common job for single mothers and those trying to work a second job to get out of debt etc. Waitresses work hard and deserve their tips. Only a true scumbag would want to take that money away.



The same could be said about gas station attendants, cashiers, stock people, fast food workers, etc. They all could be single mothers working hard on a second job to get out of debt and they would deserve tips. Do you go give the attendant $5 bucks when you fill up? Or the cashier at Target $100 after buying presents? If not, are you not a scumbag? Is the fact that they are paid a regular wage what stops you? If a waitress was paid the same wage it would be significantly less after all. Everyone else doesn't deserve it as much?

Don't get me wrong, as long as thing ridiculous paradigm is in place I will tip 20% every time. Regardless of service. It doesn't matter how performant a server is. Most people are the same way. It means nothing and does not reflect perception of service.

Plus the server is not actually there to serve the customer. Given a choice I would be happy to enter my own order, fill my own water, and get my own food. If I need a new fork I would rather just go get a new one and be done with it. I don't need to sit there and flag down a server and wait for them to eventually get back to me. Then I get to pay them for my needlessly prolonged inconvenience. Imagine the chaos if everyone did that though. The cooks would be pulling their hair out and everything would take way longer. Servers are there to maintain order, get customers in and out, and sell old food in the form of specials. None of this is of benefit to the customer. Employers should pay them a decent wage for the services they are providing to the restaurant.


But this will always be in effect. If someone offers you a service and you think it's good you have every god given right to tip them if you want to. Considering how hard waitresses work for minimum wage or even below minimum wage(An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips), I have no problem with it. I'm not saying you do, just that I'll tip whoever I want to. Usually it's wait staff and the haircutters and I'll usually tip Uber or lift drivers too, oh and Pizza delivery drivers.


So if you don't want to tip a server for whatever reason, you won't? I don't believe that.
edit on 13-12-2017 by Templeton because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 08:45 AM
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I had a job a long time ago. I didn't like the boss, the hours or the pay. I quit that job. The end.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 08:50 AM
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I've read the Proposal multiple times.

As has been mentioned by other posters already, it takes a rather iron-clad limitation, shreds it, and in its place leaves a nebulous grey area that is rife for abuse by said restaurant owners. This is the gist of what the reporter is saying in her article. By not directly limiting nefarious action, and 'deregulating' along with pushing for the individual states courts to handle this, they are effectively opening up a whole decade to have to re-hash and correct the loopholes that will be created. Of course they're not going to deliberately spell out how that abuse can be achieved (that would be too obvious), so instead they remove the limitations and allow the Owners to find clever ways to work around the system (which achieves their goal of empowering the wealthy without making an overt gesture against lower class workers).

This is Trump's administration, so whether or not this came directly from the man himself makes absolutely no difference. I find it humorously ironic however that mega-millionaire Trump is at the helm for a proposed action that will potentially allow the upper echelon of a segment of businesses to gain profit at the expense of the lowest echelon (which seems to be the common theme for the Republicans as well as Trump).

I never tire at hearing/seeing arguments from lower to middle class individuals as to why the rich deserve to be richer, while at the same time claiming those who don't agree are brainwashed.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: amazing
This is pretty shady. Waitressing is a common job for single mothers and those trying to work a second job to get out of debt etc. Waitresses work hard and deserve their tips. Only a true scumbag would want to take that money away.



The same could be said about gas station attendants, cashiers, stock people, fast food workers, etc. They all could be single mothers working hard on a second job to get out of debt and they would deserve tips. Do you go give the attendant $5 bucks when you fill up? Or the cashier at Target $100 after buying presents? If not, are you not a scumbag? Is the fact that they are paid a regular wage what stops you? If a waitress was paid the same wage it would be significantly less after all. Everyone else doesn't deserve it as much?

Don't get me wrong, as long as thing ridiculous paradigm is in place I will tip 20% every time. Regardless of service. It doesn't matter how performant a server is. Most people are the same way. It means nothing and does not reflect perception of service.

Plus the server is not actually there to serve the customer. Given a choice I would be happy to enter my own order, fill my own water, and get my own food. If I need a new fork I would rather just go get a new one and be done with it. I don't need to sit there and flag down a server and wait for them to eventually get back to me. Then I get to pay them for my needlessly prolonged inconvenience. Imagine the chaos if everyone did that though. The cooks would be pulling their hair out and everything would take way longer. Servers are there to maintain order, get customers in and out, and sell old food in the form of specials. None of this is of benefit to the customer. Employers should pay them a decent wage for the services they are providing to the restaurant.


But this will always be in effect. If someone offers you a service and you think it's good you have every god given right to tip them if you want to. Considering how hard waitresses work for minimum wage or even below minimum wage(An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips), I have no problem with it. I'm not saying you do, just that I'll tip whoever I want to. Usually it's wait staff and the haircutters and I'll usually tip Uber or lift drivers too, oh and Pizza delivery drivers.


So if you don't want to tip a server for whatever reason, you won't? I don't believe that.


It would have to be really, really bad service.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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I handle payroll for restaurants, spas, etc. Im not really sure im getting what is happening here....

SO the proposal is that tips can remain undistributed to the employees and retained by the employer, so long as the employer maintains the minimum wage minimum?

If so, what restaurant thinks they will get any employees by doing this?



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: craterman
I had a job a long time ago. I didn't like the boss, the hours or the pay. I quit that job. The end.


Why in the name of all that's holy would you take that job in the first place?



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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Why do you assume only women serve food?

Shame on you for breaking libtard law.


Isn't that backwards. I would think Libs would be more in tune with men and women working in that position.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


If so, what restaurant thinks they will get any employees by doing this?

It only takes the restaurant owner being less than forthcoming with worker rights during the hiring process. It's not like servers are notoriously well versed in labor laws or anything.
edit on 13-12-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

My thought exactly. I went WTF? It's just not viable.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: craterman
I had a job a long time ago. I didn't like the boss, the hours or the pay. I quit that job. The end.


Why in the name of all that's holy would you take that job in the first place?
Because, in this day and age, sometimes that's all you can get. Further...being able to quit a crap job is a luxury that not everyone can afford.



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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Its great for America because it will motivate young people to get an education instead of getting "nobrainneeded" jobs ...
Those jobs are for immigrants ❤️



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: TanyaUtah

Aside from your statement having nothing to do with the proposal, I'd guess that many young people, including immigrants, help pay for their education by working in...

Wait for it...

restaurants
edit on 12.14.2017 by Zarniwoop because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


If so, what restaurant thinks they will get any employees by doing this?

It only takes the restaurant owner being less than forthcoming with worker rights during the hiring process. It's not like servers are notoriously well versed in labor laws or anything.


They aren't.

We do a "tip pool" at my place. There has only been 1 person who really understood how the math works when I explained it to him. FOr the most part, the service staff just trust me.

But I have integrity. I know many people in this industry who do not.



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes. So I you see my point then? It's easy to trust the boss when you don't know, and if you have a boss with a low moral threshold then there is nothing stopping him from abusing that trust.



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have to admit, I've seen a lot of shady stuff in restaurant ops (not owners, necessarily). I'm not that sure this proposal will do that much to open up that many new doors for corruption. The unethical ones will steal with or without regulation.

Heck. One of my neighbors kids worked for a place where the owner kept all the tips.... you don't like it, you don't work here.



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Zarniwoop

Maybe, but it certainly isn't helping things. Like I said, I agree with the legislation's intent. I just don't like the implementation. It would be too easy to close that loop hole and then Trump could have an easy win for once.



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: Zarniwoop
a reply to: TanyaUtah


Haha no, you Americans pay for our education, our healthinsurance , our family etc
And we will bring more of our friends and families to put on your shoulders


edit on 14-12-2017 by TanyaUtah because: Text was not showing



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