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Trump Administration moving to allow Restaurants to keep workers tips

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posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

You need to get the facts straight on whats on the table for this bill. This bill actually eliminates the ban on TIP POOLING.

As it stands now, when you tip a server or bartender that person collects the money at the end of the shift and proceeds to TIP OUT the support staff; USUALLY for servers its busboy, bartender, host, food runner SOMETIMES the kitchen. For the Bartender, they usually tip, bar back, food runner, busboy, SOMETIMES the kitchen.

Every restaurant has a different in house rule or "recommended tipping amounts to support staff".

As it stands, MOST front of house tipped employees do not claim 100% of their earnings, and evade the taxes on these wages. ALSO most servers and bartenders make easily double even triple, or more, the hourly wage(with tips) of the back of house, the kitchen staff. As a side note, MOST kitchen staff across the country are non white, many illegal immigrants. In the south, you see a lot of african americans. But the bulk of the kitchen staff is Latin, across the board.

SO what this bill does is allows for the disparity in hourly wage earning to be lessened. It allows for the Kitchen Staff to make MORE MONEY (albeit at the cost of the front of house staff making less per hour). OWNERS DO NOT SEE THIS MONEY, pooling tips allows for owners of small businesses, to keep good kitchen and back of house staff on site.

Right now in California, finding kitchen crew is extremely hard. Kitchen crews are walking out on restaurants, demanding highers pays, time off, etc etc. I know owners that are closing businesses because they cannot afford to pay kitchen crew $25+ per hour. Also many back of house staff are leaving small restaurants to 1. work for large corporate cafeterias like google or apple or 2. go labor in construction and get paid more.

I have been in the service industry over 20 years and continue to work directly with bar and restaurant owners DAILY, and owners are happy to see this possibly come into effect not because they make more, its because they will stay in business.

Also, if you feel your server did an excellent job you can just tip them cash and tell them not to share it.




posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Fools
PLEASE STOP. HAVE YOU EVEN TAKEN A GLANCE AT THE STATUTE AS IT EXISTS NOW AND WHAT THE PROPOSED CHANGES ARE OR COULD BE OR WHY THEY ARE EVEN CONSIDERING IT? NO? THEN IT IS OK TO NOT FORM AN OPINION. NO ONE IS GOING TO HURT YOU. PLEASE STOP. ITS SO BORING THAT ALMOST NO ONE INCLUDING THE OP HAS AN INTEREST IN THE ACTUAL MEAT OR MEANING OF THIS PARTICULAR PAPER. JUST STOP FOR ONCE ALREADY AND ACTUALLY TAKE THE TIME TO READ SOMETHING BEFORE YOU HAVE AN OPINION.

caplocks off.


What do you mean? I've read it and it appears that it will allow employers to keep tips that are actually given to servers/employees. That's not okay. If I want to tip a business owner or manager or president or CEO then I will, but that never happens. You tip the waitress that serves you and your children and is working like a dog. She deserves the entire tip. Period.


It says no such thing heres the law please point out anywhere it says employers can keep tips. The article is either on purpose or by mistake misrepresenting the facts.

s3.amazonaws.com...


It says this though...."...Thus, section 3(m) permits an employer to take a
partial credit against its minimum wage obligations on account of tips received by its employees
but only if, among other things, its tipped employees retain all of their tips..." Meaning a waitress who normally keeps all of her tips and is informed of this provision can have her tips taken or used against her normal wage...again, in effect the employer taking the tips. Seriously. did you read this?



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: amazing

By saying what you just said, I know that you haven't read it.


see my last post



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: Zarniwoop
a reply to: amazing


You tip the waitress that serves you and your children and is working like a dog. She deserves the entire tip. Period.


Considering there are a whole bunch of people working hard to make sure your dining experience is a good one, I think they all deserve some of your tip. Unless you think your wait staff is also preparing your meal and washing dishes behind the scenes... then this super waitress indeed deserves the entire tip.



If you had ever worked in a restaurant, you wouldn't have said this. Seriously.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: amazing




She deserves the entire tip.


Why do you assume only women serve food?

Shame on you for breaking libtard law.


Breaking Libtard law. LOL What exactly does this mean? Are you a libtard and did I break one of your imaginary laws? Serious question.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: amazing
This is pretty shady. Waitressing is a common job for single mothers and those trying to work a second job to get out of debt etc. Waitresses work hard and deserve their tips. Only a true scumbag would want to take that money away.



The same could be said about gas station attendants, cashiers, stock people, fast food workers, etc. They all could be single mothers working hard on a second job to get out of debt and they would deserve tips. Do you go give the attendant $5 bucks when you fill up? Or the cashier at Target $100 after buying presents? If not, are you not a scumbag? Is the fact that they are paid a regular wage what stops you? If a waitress was paid the same wage it would be significantly less after all. Everyone else doesn't deserve it as much?

Don't get me wrong, as long as thing ridiculous paradigm is in place I will tip 20% every time. Regardless of service. It doesn't matter how performant a server is. Most people are the same way. It means nothing and does not reflect perception of service.

Plus the server is not actually there to serve the customer. Given a choice I would be happy to enter my own order, fill my own water, and get my own food. If I need a new fork I would rather just go get a new one and be done with it. I don't need to sit there and flag down a server and wait for them to eventually get back to me. Then I get to pay them for my needlessly prolonged inconvenience. Imagine the chaos if everyone did that though. The cooks would be pulling their hair out and everything would take way longer. Servers are there to maintain order, get customers in and out, and sell old food in the form of specials. None of this is of benefit to the customer. Employers should pay them a decent wage for the services they are providing to the restaurant.


But this will always be in effect. If someone offers you a service and you think it's good you have every god given right to tip them if you want to. Considering how hard waitresses work for minimum wage or even below minimum wage(An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips), I have no problem with it. I'm not saying you do, just that I'll tip whoever I want to. Usually it's wait staff and the haircutters and I'll usually tip Uber or lift drivers too, oh and Pizza delivery drivers.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:28 PM
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Big surprise, I didn't read it but sounds like the service charge is bbeing questioned of who gets it.

It's SOP that the house gets it.

Now what they do with it is their decision.

We gave 15% back at the end of the month to the waits.

Everything over the service charge that they got from the table, they kept.

Who is in charge of confiscating their cash tips? Is it written in that bill?

I just have a problem believing what is being put out in this thread.




posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 08:41 PM
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The customer shouldn't have to tip if the restaurant owners paid them a decent salary. What started out as kind gesture to praise the worker has been turned into a windfall for the owners by not paying their help and grabbing more profit. It also gets them around the Obama insurance scam. a reply to: Wayfarer



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: amazing

By saying what you just said, I know that you haven't read it.


see my last post


Amazing, you are not amazing at all.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Wayfarer


You linked to two documents without providing any meat FROM said documents to back up your accusations! If you think I am going to read thru them because you were too lazy to provide ANY proof of your accusations you're nutz!!!! How about showing what is in the proposal (which is what it is, it isn't law yet) to back up what you are saying!!

Where's the proof? Your post, BACK IT UP!



You should at least read the PDF...for a good chuckle. The entire premise of the OP is in direct contradiction of the language in the proposed lifting of the restriction. No one is proposing anything that will result in tipped workers making "even less"...it only applies to a specific group of tipped employees, too. Not all servers are paid using the same system, and laws on tip pools and other regulations are introduced at the state level rather than the federal.

Currently, the law only allows restaurant owners to take a percentage of server tips from each server, pool them together and share them among all of the servers. Not all their tips. That's not what tip pooling means.

It is meant to even things out because servers often get screwed with huge tables of customers who linger long after their meal, taking up a table in their section and either leaving an inadequate tip or none at all. It is the same reason why a lot of places add on an automatic gratuity for large parties. As long as those tables remain occupied, the server is unable to make more money from filling tables with new customers. Waiting tables is competitive for a reason. So the owners try to even things out for all the servers on a shift.

This is limited to only establishments where the owner pays the full federal minimum wage directly to all employees, including servers, and does not use a tip claim to make up the difference. And the only thing they're trying to do is make it to where those employers are able to take the existent tip pool percentage policy and apply it to not just regularly tipped workers like food servers, but also to people who do all the work that makes it possible for servers to have a job in the first place, instead of just those people who have far fewer duties, make the same hourly wage, and yet are still the only ones legally entitled to tip wages, which the vast majority of tipped employees don't claim as additional income on their taxes like they are supposed to be doing by law, because our government does not consider tips to be gifts, but rather taxable income.

They're making a lot more money, doing less work, and a lot of restaurant owners prefer to do things more fairly. The servers still get the same percentage of their tips left over...they simply distribute the pool to include the other employees who do not typically receive tips for their role in the restaurant operation, nor make a higher wage for the additional duties they have.

It appears that in the rush to further vilify the POTUS and after finding what seemed to be a promising vehicle by which to accomplish this act of impotent rage, OP tried to throw in some official documentation in the form of a huge PDF as muh proofs...and felt disinclined to take the effort to compare the contents of the actual document against the hyperbole of someone else's spin on it.

There was no meat because it was just a paste and parrot jobber. Seeing more and more of these lately. Grabbing and clawing at any little shred of denial they can. Blame the other guy, no matter what, and no matter how utterly ignorant and simple it makes you seem. If you say it often enough and loud enough, it'll drown out the truth so you can keep denying it some more.

This gem further down the thread lol:



 I guess I expected more from you rather than some childish response, ya know, like using reading skills. I imagined people like you would not believe my words so I linked the actual proposed change and yet you still can't be bothered to read it. Pathetic.


Notice that reading comprehension did not seem to rate a mention.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: amazing


If you had ever worked in a restaurant, you wouldn't have said this. Seriously.


I suppose that's possible, as working in a restaurant might present considerable bias toward this proposal, depending on the role and personal experience. Seems you might have some bias, yes?

Is it impossible for someone who has never worked in a restaurant but has a solid working knowledge of restaurant operations to form an opinion on this proposal? Seriously. Period.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Didn't bother to read the document for yourself eh? No, that's not what it states. Try reading it. and see if you can find where your linked article went wrong.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 11:48 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
It says no such thing heres the law please point out anywhere it says employers can keep tips. The article is either on purpose or by mistake misrepresenting the facts.

s3.amazonaws.com...
Hi dragonridr, maybe you've missed it so I'll post it here for the forth time, just because I like you


From you're linked source, s3.amazonaws.com... In section C. Discussion of Benefits and Other Potential Impacts of the Proposed Rule i. Benefits, scroll down to the bottom of page 46.

To the extent employers may otherwise make an arrangement to allocate any customer tips to make capital improvements to their establishments (e.g., enlarging the dining area to accommodate more customers), lower restaurant menu prices,...

How would you interpret these words?



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 01:14 AM
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originally posted by: Devino

originally posted by: dragonridr
It says no such thing heres the law please point out anywhere it says employers can keep tips. The article is either on purpose or by mistake misrepresenting the facts.

s3.amazonaws.com...
Hi dragonridr, maybe you've missed it so I'll post it here for the forth time, just because I like you


From you're linked source, s3.amazonaws.com... In section C. Discussion of Benefits and Other Potential Impacts of the Proposed Rule i. Benefits, scroll down to the bottom of page 46.

To the extent employers may otherwise make an arrangement to allocate any customer tips to make capital improvements to their establishments (e.g., enlarging the dining area to accommodate more customers), lower restaurant menu prices,...

How would you interpret these words?


Did you even read it or did you not understand it?

This is talking about tip credits which is used by employers to pay them while in training. Works like this waitresses start out at 2.13 an hour plus tips. However its hard to keep waitresses making this while training since it involves 3 or 4 weeks training. To keep them businesses have a form they can fill out called a tip credit. This means while in training they agree to pay you 7.25 instead of 2.13. You get paid an additional 5.12 an hour to get this you sign a form telling you what percentage of tips they will take not to exceed that 5.12 an hour. Standard is 20 percent and no where near what they pay the waitress.

That section is advising you what you can do with those tips you collect while they are training. One more thing tip credits have been around decades.
edit on 12/13/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:36 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

Did you even read it or did you not understand it?
Of course I read it, that's why I posted that excerpt.


This is talking about tip credits which is used by employers to pay them while in training.
Perhaps you can point out the part about training because I seemed to have missed it.

As far as "tip credits";

In 1966, Congress created a tip credit provision within the definition of a “wage” in section 3(m) of the statute that permitted an employer to utilize tips received by its employees to subsidize up to 50 percent of its minimum wage obligations.
Tip credits in this regard are used to subsidize an employees minimum wage. In other words the employer can pay half of the hourly Federal minimum wage and use 50% of an employees tips to make up the rest, i.e. tip credits. The proposal details this point several times.


That section is advising you what you can do with those tips you collect while they are training.
Show me where this is found because I cannot find that part either.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:41 AM
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Where the hell do liberals get this crap,and the mindless fools that perpetrate ignorance,why is it people on here post something they never read,and mindless believe,this world is screwed with idiots letting their world slip way,while helping the enemy



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 02:51 AM
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originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Where the hell do liberals get this crap,and the mindless fools that perpetrate ignorance,why is it people on here post something they never read,and mindless believe,this world is screwed with idiots letting their world slip way,while helping the enemy
People just love to hate, don't they? I sometimes find it rather hard not to get caught up in all of the vitriol. In defense of the OP and others posting here this proposal isn't an easy read. Have you read it? I have found instruction manuals that were more interesting.
edit on 12/13/2017 by Devino because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 05:17 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

really you believed that if you paid tip with card your waitress actually saw some of it RESTAURANTS HAVE BEEN GETTING OVER ON US FOR YEARS BY MAKING US PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES WAGES SO THEY DON'T HAVE TOO. all employees should be given at least minimum wage and if a customer feels like they went above and beyond then at their choice leave a tip. i avoid places that automatically charge tip on bill not because i don't want to leave a tip but because oncd the tip hits register employer most places keep it.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: seeker1963

I shouldn't have to defend my reasons, but if a political topic is being discussed in the mud pit and only the mud pit that I want to discuss then I have to go into it despite not liking the forum. SHOCKING. I know.



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: MisterSpock

I'm not really defending the OP in this thread. I was just seeing if there was validity to the claims and if the the OP provided reasonable evidence for his claims that could be gathered from reading the material. It seems like he did. I can totally see how Business Insider came to the conclusion it did. Let's be real here, if it's allowed there WILL be restaurants that will do this. Granted there will be others that will tip share in the ways that the bill is intended, but the loop hole exists. That is undeniable. So it will be taken advantage of. It may not be immediate, but it'll happen. And eventually it could even become the norm.

Though I see both sides to the story; I like the idea of opening up tips to non-costumer service people at restaurants. Honestly I feel like the bill has good intentions but is poorly written.




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