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Trump Administration moving to allow Restaurants to keep workers tips

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posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t


The OP DID provide proof


Proof that an assertion was made.

Beyond the OP, the author of the sourced article didn't even provide proof. Just an assertion and a link to the proposal.


Under the administration’s proposed rule, as long as the tipped workers earn minimum wage, the employer can legally pocket those tips.


I'd like to see proof of that.

By "legally pocketing" tips, I assume that means not redistributing them via a tip pool.




posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Yep, I've seen pictures of Trump handing out $100 bills as tips.

I'm sure Trump will write an Executive order real soon on this....NOT.

Of course, it's the MSM saying "Trump" is blah blah blah. Of course that Aministration is still going about doing things that he doesn't want and even fights him on.

But of course this is a high priority item on his 'to-do' list.....NOT.

Having said that, this move is B.S.. Trump being a New Yorker, I'd bet this goes by the wayside. We shall see.

edit on 12-12-2017 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: Zarniwoop

Keep in mind, I never commented on the authenticity of the OP's claims. If the person I was talking to had bothered to read the stuff instead of arrogantly dismissing then he could have pointed out the problems with the OP's reasoning. But he didn't and instead chose to further the bitterness, hate, and tribalism that underscores most ATS topics these days.

I think the bill as written seems bad, but some parts of it seem sensationalized by the media too. So I'm currently withholding judgment on it. There are other things Trump is doing that I'm more worried about than this.
edit on 12-12-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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But if an employer pays the full Federal minimum wage and does not take a tip credit, the proposed rule would allow tip sharing in a manner currently prohibited by regulation, including by sharing tips with employees who are not customarily and regularly tipped (e.g., restaurant cooks and dishwashers) through a tip pool.




posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: Zarniwoop

Keep waiting, because there's no proof of that.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Wayfarer

I was a waitress for years during my younger days. I think that is when my hate for people began. I think we should go the European way, tip included in the price of the meal, everyone happy, maybe.


IMO, that would be fine so long as all the tips go to the servers. It would be a good way to be sure that the income was reported and that taxes were paid.

But if it’s taxes we’re really worried about, we’re gonna need to take a look at everyone who is paid as “contract labor” too. Because, much like restaurant servers, they are also entrusted to report their own earnings and pay applicable taxes.

On the other hand, the restaurant has no business taking their tips and redistributing them as they see fit. The restaurant owner shouldn’t have the right to utilize server tips to subsidize the cost of cooks and dishwashers. If they’re having a hard time attracting other help, like cooks and dishwashers, maybe they should consider paying them more to begin with.

If restaurants are going to be allowed to do this, then maybe it’s time they lost the minimum wage exemption they’ve enjoyed since forever.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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But he didn't and instead chose to further the bitterness, hate, and tribalism that underscores most ATS topics these days


Starting a thread in the mud pit does very little to support a decent, civil discussion on the topic.

I doubt Trump even knows about this proposal by the DoL.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

I have a better plan, no tips anywhere. Pay market rates to your employees. If a server is worth $14/hr pay them $14/hr. Adjust the price of your food to include the service.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: Zarniwoop

So now I'm curious and started reading the pdf provided in the OP. From what I'm gathering the claim in the OP that you are calling attention to isn't SPECIFICALLY lined out in the proposal, but it can be inferred with how the new tip rules work. The proposal seems to be functioning under the assumption that ALL employers who pay minimum wage but don't tip are looking to use tip pools to give tips to dishwashers and others, but that is an assumption and one that can easily be abused if there are no hard and fast limits to prevent the abuse. Which I'm not seeing there are any in this proposal.

So while the proposal ENCOURAGES tip sharing, it isn't a requirement and thus employers can just legally pocket the tips. The proposal is leaving the decision on the legality of this up to the States and employer/employee agreement contracts.

Promulgation of the regulation would also make clear that where an employer does not claim the tip credit under section 3(m) and pays a direct wage that satisfies the FLSA’s minimum wage requirements, the treatment and disposition of tips is a matter of agreement between the employer and employees or
of state law.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Zarniwoop

True. That's why I utterly loath this forum and feel like it is by far the worst addition ATS ever added to the site.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

That would work for me.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Zarniwoop

So now I'm curious and started reading the pdf provided in the OP. From what I'm gathering the claim in the OP that you are calling attention to isn't SPECIFICALLY lined out in the proposal, but it can be inferred with how the new tip rules work. The proposal seems to be functioning under the assumption that ALL employers who pay minimum wage but don't tip are looking to use tip pools to give tips to dishwashers and others, but that is an assumption and one that can easily be abused if there are no hard and fast limits to prevent the abuse. Which I'm not seeing there are any in this proposal.

So while the proposal ENCOURAGES tip sharing, it isn't a requirement and thus employers can just legally pocket the tips. The proposal is leaving the decision on the legality of this up to the States and employer/employee agreement contracts.

Promulgation of the regulation would also make clear that where an employer does not claim the tip credit under section 3(m) and pays a direct wage that satisfies the FLSA’s minimum wage requirements, the treatment and disposition of tips is a matter of agreement between the employer and employees or
of state law.


So if a claim isn't specifically outlined in the proposal, what does that make the claim?

Inaccurate?

Accurate if we infer other scenarios not outlined in the proposal?

It seems that with a lack of information, the only think one can do is go with what information is provided. In this case, the original premise of the OP is false.

Is that not logical?



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Zarniwoop

True. That's why I utterly loath this forum and feel like it is by far the worst addition ATS ever added to the site.


You participate in what you CLAIM you loath? roflmao


edit on 12-12-2017 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

It is currently illegal for an employer to take an employee's tips for any reason other than a tip pool. So no, it cannot be inferred that this magically lets them pocket an employees tips.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 03:46 PM
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More twisting facts to make FAKE NEWS!!!



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

I don’t doubt trump might make it worse, but they already make the servers pay for the hosts, bussers and bartenders salaries..



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

They already all pool tops and ATLEAST THE CORPORATE joints will ALWAYS do what’s more profitable..

Then to compete the mom and pop places are required to do the same..

So the requirement part becomes irrelevant.. shouldn’t have been included, but I don’t see how it changes he variables..



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It is currently illegal for an employer to take an employee's tips for any reason other than a tip pool. So no, it cannot be inferred that this magically lets them pocket an employees tips.


Whether it happens with this change or not, something illegal now might be legal after a rule change.

Saying it is illegal now so it won't happen isn't true.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
In other words. If you are working for minimum wage AND get tips, the employer can pool your tips. If you're working for tip wage (like servers at restaurants) then they CANNOT take your tip money.
This is almost correct.

The Department of Labor (Department) is proposing to rescind portions of its tip regulations issued pursuant to the Fair Labor Standards Act that impose restrictions on employers that pay a direct cash wage of at least the full federal minimum wage and do not seek to use a portion of tips as a credit toward their minimum wage obligations.
Tip Regulations under the Fair Labor Standards Act
Some states allow employers to use what a server makes in tips to offset what he (the employer) pays his employee in wages. In other words some of the tips made will subsidize the employees wages. This may also work in a pool so it would subsidize all employees wages in the same manner, the employer pays less in wages. I believe that if you read down you'll find the limitations on how much an employer can offset in wages to make up to minimum, they differ per state.

This bill is for those employers that pay at least full minimum wage and do not use the employees tips to offset wages.

If you read down even farther;

To the extent employers may otherwise make an arrangement to allocate any customer tips to make capital improvements to their establishments (e.g., enlarging the dining area to accommodate more customers), lower restaurant menu prices, provide new benefits to workers (e.g., paid time off), increase work hours, or hire additional workers, these are also potential benefits to employees and the economy overall that may result under the proposed rule.
To lower menu prices? If I didn't know better I would say this sounds like the employer gets to pocket some of the pooled tip money.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have a family member who's been in the industry for a long time.

The initial push for this move is the large chains. They have an issue with hiring/promoting people into management of their outlets as top servers-well experienced and professional-make more than management does.

In some cases in 'mom and pop' operations serves take home more than the owners, as well as management.

It is what it is. The fact is, many, many single moms provide a livable income as servers and provide for their families without relying on social programs, whatsoever.

As wages wih tips can easily reach 20-30 dollars per hour with top line servers even in average restaurants, they tend to tip out hostesses, busers and the back end staff....cooks dishwashers, etc.

Some restaurants set policy as to the percentile to pass on to non-servers.

Add in the fast food chains which tend to lose servers to traditional restaurants due to those tips- fast food chains operate on a 40% profit margin while he average restaurant operates at circa 4% profit- and one can see were the vested interest are.

Either way making the server suffer is not an ethical solution. Those that don't want to tip don't have to. Free choice is built in.

While this doesn't make it 'mandatory', it does make it legal for owners to take the servers tips, as most are processed via credit and debit cards.

The smart ones won't do it as service, along with quality, food is paramount for a successful restaurant.



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