The “Promised Land” Belongs to Palestinians and Jews

a reply to: Sahabi

Yes please let's talk about expulsion. How many of the so-called Palestinians living in the West Bank are actually just refugees that were pushed out of Jordan? How many Arabs living in Gaza and outlying cities really just refugees pushed out of Egypt?
The answer is nearly all of them. Don't forget Jerusalem was controlled by Jordan before 1968 not Yasser Arafat or any so-called Palestinian Arab government.
.
.
You talk about straw man arguments but you are building a whole strawman nation

originally posted by: dashen

The Kurds who have their own language and culture are a stand-alone people. I can't seem to find any record of Palestinian Cuisine language or anything cultural that would set them apart from their local Arab brethren

There isn't...Palestinian is a group of nomadic people across 6 countries we see today. Jordan is Arab Palestine and I would love for someone to debate how a river separates nomadic tribes that somehow Jordanians who only came into being in 1900s are not a part of.

We need to understand the small area of Israel is Jewish Palestine and 6 other Arab countries constitutes Arab Palestine as part of the old Ottoman Empire.

Brilliant writing and formating of the post Sahabi. Such a peaceful and independent review of the crisis.



The region could have been a leading light for the world. At least the original borders could have been respected. Ultimately no borders or walls built , no war instigated and a peaceful interfaith region had florished. A eutopia for "Gods" children! The result is sickening.

a reply to: dashen

If you read and watch documentarys thoroughly on the devide of territories, Sahabi presented a map that is correct. Sadly Israel keeps inching into Palestinian territories by any means posssible. With no respect to the original ruling of territorial boundaries.



Hopefully the next generation corrects the ills of the past, brings the wall down and dances together in the street.

a reply to: aliensanonymous

I think everyone is missing the point that there are two million Israeli Arabs who are not Palestinian. I'm all for dancing in the street but not have half the people are trying to stab you in the back. I have seen nothing historically that will show any Palestinian keeping to agreements or settlements

originally posted by: dashen
My personal opinion is for a two-state solution. In return for the Palestinians getting their own State Israel should cut off 100% of Israeli aid currently traveling into Palestinian territories.
If the International Community wants to help them out that's fine but so far Israel provides them with 100% free electricity most of their food and building materials.
Additionally if the Palestinians want to continue using terrorism as a bargaining chip then if they have their own state it will be viewed as an act of war and Israel can respond accordingly by declaring war on an opposing warlike state and not some faceless terrorist organization that launches attacks from children's hospitals and humanitarian relief buildings

Thanks for posting as I had no idea this is the case. However, if I put myself into the shoes of a Palestinian, I would prefer to be free and source my own food and electricity. It may be a more difficult life but as it is, Palestinians are no more than prisoners. It's nice of their jailers to feed them and give them certain comforts but the jailer is in charge of their lives.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Palestinians are no more than prisoners. It's nice of their jailers to feed them and give them certain comforts but the jailer is in charge of their lives.

Can I ask you a question? What stops them from going further east...It seems Israel has only 3 of the 4 walls...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Palestinians are no more than prisoners. It's nice of their jailers to feed them and give them certain comforts but the jailer is in charge of their lives.

Can I ask you a question? What stops them from going further east...It seems Israel has only 3 of the 4 walls...

Good question. I'd have to guess that Jordan would not want them taking any of their territory. Jordan could take them in and I'm sure to some extent they do. But people naturally want to have a place to call their own. I certainly feel that way about living in the USA. It even comes down to the state I live in, the county and city. Humans are so tribal.

a reply to: Sahabi

Good informative read Sahabi
Hopefully they Israel & Palestine can find peace there...

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Funny enough it was actually the Egyptians that cut off their electricity last year. they are no more prisoners then Palestinians living in Jordan or Syria or Lebanon

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

Good question. I'd have to guess that Jordan would not want them taking any of their territory. Jordan could take them in and I'm sure to some extent they do. But people naturally want to have a place to call their own. I certainly feel that way about living in the USA. It even comes down to the state I live in, the county and city. Humans are so tribal.

What was Jordan before Jordan? Are not the Jordanians Palestinian too? It was kind of trick question since across 6 countries the people were mostly all Palestinians one kind or another. What we see in the West Bank are basically refugees that no one wants, but they use them as a tool against Israel. Remember before 1967 Jordan controlled the West Bank and basically said "good riddance" to it...It wasn't like the people there could go into Jordan back then either...

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: dashen

Another straw man deflection. Legitimate land purchases do NOT negate the instances of forced expulsion, land seizures, and the building of settlements on those seized lands.

We can discuss the land purchases, but we can NOT ignore the expulsions and seizures.

actually...the places where they are expelled from were given back to jordan and egypt who refused to take it back as long as their unwanted people did not come back to their countries. Why? cause they tried to overthrow their countris and they do not want them. so Israel is obligated to care for them.

also the jews /hebrews were forcefully given a name change by rome. ottomans kept this up till they got pissed and got the un to give them land back they originally owned. the arabs got mad an left. then tried to rob them and got shut down.
wars have consequences.

Wasn't the promised Land promised to the Jews?

The victors write history.

Not sure why anyone wants to kill over a hot desert climate for. To each their own. As far as I'm concerned they can all have it, just keep me the hell out of it.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Wasn't the promised Land promised to the Jews?

The victors write history.

The victors certainly didn't write their religious™ texts...

www.truetorahjews.org...

Talmudic Sources Saying that Jews Are Forbidden to Return from Exile on Their Own and Create a State

Tractate Kesubos 111a
The Biblical book Song of Songs says: “I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles or the deer of the field, not to arouse or awaken the love before it is desired.” This oath occurs three times in the Song of Songs (2:7, 3:5 and 8:4). The Talmud interprets this metaphorical language to mean as follows: the speaker here is G-d, and the “daughters of Jerusalem” are the Jewish people and the nations of the world. During the Jewish exile, which began with the destruction of the Temple in the year 69 CE, G-d placed three oaths upon the world, two upon the Jewish people and one upon the nations. The Jewish people were foresworn not to immigrate as a wall (i.e. en masse) to the Holy Land, and not to rebel against the other nations. The nations were foresworn not to afflict the Jews too much.


Which state that it is The Creator who MUST restore their lands and NOT some Zionist™ on a land and money grab!!!

"We owned it once before, so we should get it back now," is a pretty weak argument. Did you lose it a poker game? Or multiple wars? Then it ain't yours anymore.

a reply to: dashen

I gave you a few links, and with further effort you can find more. Or if you disagree, can you please counter with a link to a sourced conclusion?

You say that you can not find, in the Palestinian People, anything to, “set them apart from their local Arab brethren”, and further allege that Palestinians are merely Arab refugees. However, the genetic testing performed on Palestinians has illustrated that they share paternal lineage with the Hebrew, Israelite, and Jewish Peoples. The Palestinian People are scientifically confirmed to be an assimilated mixture of all known peoples that have inhabited or occupied the Promised Land from the prehistoric, ancient, and common eras.

Can’t you see that this thread is about reconciliation? The suffering is so long-standing, and no one has hands clean from blood anymore. To keep taking a firm stand for one side and pointing fingers will only perpetuate the assured suffering of the beautiful Israelis, Jews, Palestinians, and all others inhabiting the region. The goal is peace and liberty for all, not winner takes all.

Entire planet belongs to God.

a reply to: aliensanonymous

Thanks for the kind words and vibrant post. I continue to envision the Promised Land to one day be, ”a leading light for the world,” and, ”A eutopia for "Gods" children!” The vast majority of us, regardless of walk of life, just want an honest, happy, and comfortable life for ourselves and our families. With such a universally shared yearning, I am hopeful that peace will one day be affirmed so that all can take advantage of joyful living the world over.

a reply to: JimNasium

Keeping it simple. West vs East. Think about it.

a reply to: yuppa

the arabs got mad an left. then tried to rob them and got shut down.

The Palestinians are an Arabized People, however, they are a distinct people who are genetically related to the Hebrews, Jews, and all other people who have ever inhabited the Promised Land in mass.

“actually...the places where they are expelled from were given back to jordan and egypt who refused to take it back as long as their unwanted people did not come back to their countries”

We are taking into consideration the greater context of it all. We are talking about the minor, disjointed, and significant expulsions, seizures, violence, and intimidation against the Palestinian People by their newly emigrated Jewish Brethren during the 19th and early 20th Centuries. The majority of this occurred/occurs within the very heart of Israel, and became well-initiated before ever spilling over into neighboring nations.

Please don’t misunderstand me or this thread. This is not a pro-Palestinian or anti-Jewish debate, or vice-versa. We are trying to kindle the light of peace through acknowledging the shared genetics and historic legacy of both the Jews and Palestinians together.

a reply to: Sahabi

sorry. yasser arafatt himself said moder palis are a lie him and the PLO came up with that built off of the jewish palestinian hebrews enemy the philistines.(THESE ARE NOT ARABS) They later called themselves israeli when israel was remade. palestinians ceased to be until after the wars of israel and the PLO.