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originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: testingtesting
As for making a pagan thread .... hey who knows, it might not devolve into "you are all going to hell"
The doctrine that hell is a place of torment is not based on the Bible. Rather, it is a pagan belief masquerading as a Christian teaching. ... No, God does not torture people eternally in hell. How can learning the truth about hell affect your attitude toward God?
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A BRIEF HISTORY OF HELL
ROOTS IN PAGAN BELIEFS: The ancient Egyptians believed in a fiery hell. The Book Ȧm-Ṭuat, dated 1375 B.C.E., speaks of those who “shall be cast down headlong into the pits of fire; and . . . shall not escape therefrom, and . . . shall not be able to flee from the flames.” Greek philosopher Plutarch (c.46-120 C.E.) wrote of those in the world below: “[They] raised a cry of wailing as they underwent fearful torments and ignominious and excruciating chastisements.”
SECTS OF JUDAISM ARE INFECTED: The historian Josephus (37-c.100 C.E.) reported that the Essenes, a Jewish sect, believed that “the souls are immortal, and continue forever.” He added: “This is like the opinion of the Greeks . . . They allot to bad souls a dark and tempestuous den, full of never-ceasing punishments.” [see also Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal, another teaching that has its origin in Pagan teachings]
INTRODUCED INTO “CHRISTIANITY”: In the second century C.E., the apocryphal book Apocalypse of Peter said of the wicked: “There is spread out for them unquenchable fire.” It also stated: “Ezrael, the angel of wrath, brings men and women with the half of their bodies burning and casts them into a place of darkness, the hell of men; and a spirit of wrath chastises them.” During the same time period, writer Theophilus of Antioch quotes the Greek prophetess Sibyl as foretelling the punishments of the wicked: “Upon you burning fire shall come, and ever ye shall daily burn in flames.” These are among the words that Theophilus says are “true, and useful, and just, and profitable to all men.”
HELLFIRE USED TO JUSTIFY VIOLENCE IN THE MIDDLE AGES: Mary I, queen of England (1553-1558), known as “Bloody Mary” for burning nearly 300 Protestants at the stake, reportedly said: “As the souls of heretics are hereafter to be eternally burning in hell, there can be nothing more proper than for me to imitate the Divine vengeance by burning them on earth.”
A RECENT DEFINITION: In recent years, some denominations have revised their teaching about hell. For example, the Doctrine Commission of the Church of England said in 1995: “Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being.”
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Recasting God
Christ and his disciples taught that there is only “one God the Father,” distinguished by his personal name, Jehovah, which appears some 7,000 times in early Bible manuscripts. (1 Corinthians 8:6; Psalm 83:18) Jesus was created by God; he is “the firstborn of every creature,” says the Catholic Douay Version of the Bible at Colossians 1:15. Thus, as a created being, Jesus frankly stated: “The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28.
But by the third century, certain influential clerics, enamored of the trinitarian teaching of pagan Greek philosopher Plato, began recasting God to fit the Trinitarian formula. In the following centuries, this doctrine unscripturally elevated Jesus to equality with Jehovah and made God’s holy spirit, or active force, into a person.
Concerning the church’s adoption of the pagan concept of the Trinity, the New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”
Similarly, The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.” The Oxford Companion to the Bible calls the Trinity one of a number of “later creedal formulations.” Yet, the Trinity was not the only pagan concept assimilated into the church.
Refashioning the Soul
It is commonly believed today that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the body. But did you know that this church teaching was also a later addition? Jesus affirmed the Biblical truth that the dead “are conscious of nothing at all,” that they are asleep, as it were. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-13) Life would be restored by means of a resurrection—‘a standing up again’ from the sleep of death. (John 5:28, 29) An immortal soul, if it existed, would need no resurrection, since immortality precludes death.
...The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology says that the concept “owes more to Greek philosophy than to biblical revelation.” The Jewish Encyclopedia explains: “The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”
Often, one falsehood leads to another, and that is true of the immortal-soul teaching. It opened the way for the pagan notion of eternal torment in a fiery hell.* Yet, the Bible plainly states that “the wages sin pays is death”—not eternal torment. (Romans 6:23)
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*: “Hell” is a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades, both of which simply mean “the grave.” Thus, while the English translators of the King James Version translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” they also rendered it 31 times as “grave” and 3 times as “pit,” thereby showing that these terms mean basically the same thing.
“The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”— Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: whereislogic
...
Just curious.
Christian use
The symbol has been used in Christian tradition as a sign of the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), especially since the Celtic revival of the 19th century. ...
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Modern use
In contemporary Ireland,...The triquetra... is often found as a design element in popular Irish jewelry...
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Neopaganism
...Celtic pagans, or even neopagans who are not of a Celtic cultural orientation, may use the triquetra to symbolise a variety of concepts and mythological figures.
Due to its presence in insular Celtic art, Celtic Reconstructionists use the triquetra either to represent one of the various triplicities in their cosmology and theology (such as the tripartite division of the world into the realms of Land, Sea and Sky),[3] or as a symbol of one of the specific Celtic triple goddesses, for example the battle goddess, The Morrígan.
Germanic neopagan groups who use the triquetra to symbolise their faith generally believe it is originally of Norse and Germanic origins.
The symbol is also sometimes used by wiccans and some new agers to symbolise the Triple Goddess, or as a protective symbol.[4]
Consider what happened about the year 50 C.E. when the apostle Paul visited Athens, a city in which much emphasis was placed on the use of images in worship. Paul explained to the Athenians that God “does not dwell in handmade temples, neither is he attended to by human hands as if he needed anything . . . Therefore, . . . we ought not to imagine that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and contrivance of man.”—Acts 17:24, 25, 29.
Actually, such warnings regarding the use of idols are common in the Christian Greek Scriptures, also called the New Testament. For example, the apostle John admonished Christians: “Guard yourselves from idols.” (1 John 5:21) ...
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Adoption of Icons by “Christians”
The Encyclopædia Britannica says that “during the first three centuries of the Christian Church, . . . there was no Christian art, and the church generally resisted it with all its might. Clement of Alexandria, for example, criticized religious (pagan) art in that it encouraged people to worship that which is created rather than the Creator.”
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Footnote: Generally, a religious icon is a representation or symbol venerated by members of a particular religion. In the Eastern Orthodox Church, for example, some are representations of Christ; others represent the Trinity, “saints,” angels or, as in the case mentioned above, Mary the mother of Jesus. Millions of people have a reverence for icons that resembles the attitude that many have toward images used in worship. Certain religions that do not claim to be Christian hold similar beliefs and feelings toward icons and images of their deities.
An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol.
originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: chr0naut
Hmm I'm going to have to disagree about Pagan Faiths being well tolerated by Christian Communities. There are examples of forced conversions by Christians. For example I will mention the Capitulatio de partibus Saxoniae. What you listed was not really tolerance.
The history of the neopagan revival is fairly modern, and sits almost whole during the Victorian Deist period.
Now Witchcraft is a tricky thing. Viz all Wiccans are Witches, not all Witches are Wiccans. FOr the most part Witches are considered Pagan, with a few exceptions.
originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Oldtimer2
How the hell does this have anything to do with people being liberal or not? No seriously.
originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Noinden
... nor do they make the older pagan teachings about the concept of a hell or underworld (nether world [or "Other World"]) any less pagan nor do they negate or change the fact that that concept isn't taught in the bible. It's not from the bible but originates from paganism in Egypt, Babylon and the ancient Greeks and the version of hell you spoke about initially is still dependent on the teaching of the immortality of the soul as the immaterial invisible part of man, another pagan teaching which you spoke about as well in your last comment when describing the soul going somewhere after a person has died (a soul that doesn't die when the person dies). ...
The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.
The doctrine that hell is a place of torment is not based on the Bible. Rather, it is a pagan belief masquerading as a Christian teaching.
...
A BRIEF HISTORY OF HELL
ROOTS IN PAGAN BELIEFS: The ancient Egyptians believed in a fiery hell. The Book Ȧm-Ṭuat, dated 1375 B.C.E., speaks of those who “shall be cast down headlong into the pits of fire; and . . . shall not escape therefrom, and . . . shall not be able to flee from the flames.” Greek philosopher Plutarch (c.46-120 C.E.) wrote of those in the world below: “[They] raised a cry of wailing as they underwent fearful torments and ignominious and excruciating chastisements.”
SECTS OF JUDAISM ARE INFECTED: The historian Josephus (37-c.100 C.E.) reported that the Essenes, a Jewish sect, believed that “the souls are immortal, and continue forever.” He added: “This is like the opinion of the Greeks . . . They allot to bad souls a dark and tempestuous den, full of never-ceasing punishments.”