Soldiers relieved at end of Iraqi war. Not.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
ufochaser

Actually, if you look carefully, the "V-Day" scene of the statue being pulled down was a have.

1. It was next to the International Hotel, hosting the majority of the international press gallery.

2. It was about the 20th most significant Saddam statue.

3. There were a handful of locals present, boosted by imported "freedom fighters".

4. When published by the mainstream press, images were further enhanced to lend the appearance of a large celebrating throng of gleeful Iraqis.

It never happened.

It was all put on.

It was another big lie.

Does that make you more comfortable?

Masked/ColonelClink, are you guys honestly going to run this after the Admin. is re-elected?

Which guys?

Run what?

Re-elect what?

So they are not relieved at the end of the war. They may or may not be holding Iraq until the UN can get involved. There are alterior motives here that will probably be continue into the next 4 years if current Admin gets re-elected, but for now it seems that our soldiers will continue to get wounded or killed until we either move on to another Middle Eastern country(Read: Syria) or someone else gets elected and asks the UN to take over so we can get our guys outta there.

Hey RobertBurns!

Did you find the Saddam Statue party to be 'poetic'?

Sorry if it has caused you any consternation.

Meanwhile, in the real world, soldiers continue to die, and people continue to hate America.

Not a pretty picture at all, and the patriots here don't do a very good job of selling the USA either.

I just asked Masked where you have the "proof" that it was nothing like was shown.

I'd say running around the streets with Saddam's statue head is quite a lot...but you seem to deny it all.

But where's the proof lad

It's alright, I don't like how people say "Meanwhile the soldiers die out there" blah blah...

Not sure how it is in the rest of the World, some places, soldiers are born, others, made.

But in America, every Citizen is a soldier.

When our time comes should it come we should all equally be ready to face it.

Therefore we should not whine that soldiers die, that wars are fought nor that our soldiers are not pampered enough in their later years.

No one should recieve more for their duty, than is enough to get by.

And no one should recieve praise for the duty of War.

Rememberance is enough.

Robbie

Och man, ye have missed the last page on account of some noise.

Ye have yer proof if ye look back.

Originally posted by ufochaser
So they are not relieved at the end of the war. They may or may not be holding Iraq until the UN can get involved. There are alterior motives here that will probably be continue into the next 4 years if current Admin gets re-elected, but for now it seems that our soldiers will continue to get wounded or killed until we either move on to another Middle Eastern country(Read: Syria) or someone else gets elected and asks the UN to take over so we can get our guys outta there.

My take on this whole affair was that the regime needed to go...that said, We knew the 'war' afterwards to win the people over who had animosity towards the COALITION'S objectives would be cumbersome... hello, we are not alone here.
Is there no fortitude? Should the COALITION turn tail now, and scurry forth into the saftey of the bramble??? Should the U.S. hide behind the UN and cower when tragedy strikes again?? They have served us soooo well.

The objective is highly virtuous and if attained, will be of a very good thing. IMHO

The UN is bankrupt. Almost literally. They have no moral foundation to stand on anymore. They cower when faced with serious conflict, they want rulership otherwise. What are the Un's good for beyond humanitarian works???

They always ask our help in every major conflict- 'Please Mr, Sam, help us (plead)!

[Edited on 2-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

"But in America, every Citizen is a soldier."
In theory, this is a nice thought. But to prove it, re-implement the Draft and see how many actually take it seriously and tain and get sent to war areas, and how many find a way out and how many just sneak up to Canada. If this was right after 9/11, you would see a LOT of people joining up. But right now, I'm not so sure. With people questioning where are the WMDs and was there really a reason for the war with no proof, I think a lot of people would question what they are fighting for. We were fighting for freedom, but I wonder if you were to go up to a random IRaqi, would the response be "Thank you for freeing us from the tyranny of Saddam?" or "Why did you invade our country and make things worse?" I seriously doubt you would receive the first response.
But I digress.....

Oh Masked...tisk tisk. If we could just as easily "faked" the pulling down of that statue as being a big event to Iraqis.

So could your source have easily "faked" it's not being a big issue.

All I see is a bunch of fuzzy photos with a bunch of captions to "lead my thoughts".

While I don't doubt it was nothing like the berlin wall...I don't think Iraqis were mourning the loss of that statue either.

And I certainly think your source is more concerned with weakening the position of America, than it is concerned with the "truth".

ufochaser

I don't see that or anything here as a digression.

We were told when the end of the war was, in triumphant celebration. But it was a lie, just like the start.

The US soldiers quoted don't want to be there and don't see their purpose in being there. They don't lie.

Iraqis who say they don't want the soldiers there don't lie either.

The war isn't ended, and there's nothing to be relieved or complacent about.

Originally posted by ufochaser
"But in America, every Citizen is a soldier."
In theory, this is a nice thought. But to prove it, re-implement the Draft and see how many actually take it seriously and tain and get sent to war areas, and how many find a way out and how many just sneak up to Canada. If this was right after 9/11, you would see a LOT of people joining up. But right now, I'm not so sure. With people questioning where are the WMDs and was there really a reason for the war with no proof, I think a lot of people would question what they are fighting for. We were fighting for freedom, but I wonder if you were to go up to a random IRaqi, would the response be "Thank you for freeing us from the tyranny of Saddam?" or "Why did you invade our country and make things worse?" I seriously doubt you would receive the first response.
But I digress.....

I suppose the question is, have we made things worse, or are things just now coming out now that cnn,bbc fow and every other alphabet news org is now reporting from a 'open' Iraq. Think about this ok?
What did you really know about Iraq before the war? hmmmmm.

[Edited on 2-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

Robbie

Fine. Now you have seen a source you don't like. Go and find 100 others, where the photos may be clearer, or the words more to your liking.

But your rebuttal is meaningless in support of the heavily branded 'War On Terror'.

The photos at that site are not faked. Other photos used in the mainstream press in April have been analysed by unbiased observers as fakes. These analysts are observers of media practice, not political aspirants.

Face facts, don't fake them.

Robbie

Fine. Now you have seen a source you don't like. Go and find 100 others, where the photos may be clearer, or the words more to your liking.

But your rebuttal is meaningless in support of the heavily branded 'War On Terror'.

The photos at that site are not faked. Other photos used in the mainstream press in April have been analysed by unbiased observers as fakes. These analysts are observers of media practice, not political aspirants.

Face facts, don't fake them.

Masked, when you get done, let me know what is worse in Iraq.

Masked have your opinions, but your facts aren't worth campaigning with.

You'll just need to get the information from the people who were there, saying it was staged.

For all you know the situation was that there was figting in the distance, so the taks prevented more people from coming in in case they were suicide troops and such.

I never said that the pictures were faked, but Pictures can be decieving due to captions.

The reality is usually much different.

For instance most Civil War photos of dead soldiers, were staged using the same dead soldiers laid in different positions.

And the famous "Sniper's last resting place" photo was not even of a sniper, they took a body over 100 feet away, and gave him a prop, not even a rifle that snipers would normally use at that time period.

And then put a caption claiming he was a sniper.

Hence my point that "Picture evidence" just isn't valid enough.

Tyrrific,
I will admit it: What I knew about Iraq is what was fed me by the news services. However, I was also told that we were going in to get Saddam, to put an end to his tyranny and stop the torture of the Iraqi people. The way it was brought about was wrong. The UN kept saying give us time, and we said there is no time and barged in. The UN is there as a check and balance. What good is it if all we have to do to avoid it is say 'Time is of the essence. You are with us or against us. Oh and by the way, if you are against us, we can consider you a potential threat.' This war is not what America stands for. Bush and his Admin can spin it til the cows come home. A spade is a spade and this was an unwelcome invasion into a country that did not and does not want us there. Because of that, The US is now seen as occupying Iraq and even being accused of taking their oil to pay for the war and who knows what else. What I knew about Iraq is that they tested chems on their own people and Saddam is a bad bad man.
ufo

ufochaser maybe you are too young to remember the First Gulf War, but the UN told us to hold back there too and it cost the lives of 10s of thousands, due to Saddam's revenge.

Getting rid of Saddam now was the best thing we could ever have done.

Not listening to the UN, was just the gravy.

I don't know about you but I don't want any other countries having legislative powers over us.

Maybe you've forgotten already the mass graves that have been found, full of 10s of thousands of dead...more dead than were ever killed in Kosovo.

Or were those faked too?

Tyriffic

Resources in foreign hands. Haliburton and Carlyle continued corruption. Presidential executive order preventing any entity from suing a US oil company for stealing.

Billions of dollars in priceless, irreplaceable cultural treasures gone.

Thousands dead.

Infrastructure destroyed, taking years to rebuild.

Expanded PNAC middle east influence. PNAC agenda step one achieved.

This would take hours, but I would Toltec to come and say that hundreds of thousands more Kurds could have been gassed.

* I edited to put Tyriffic's name up there as there are a number of interesting conversations going on, and Scottish poems being composed *

* Also, I haven't figured why one of my posts appeared twice in three minutes. I wonder if it will disappear. *

[Edited on 2-7-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

That executive order, can you find it please

There's a long list of every single EO issued (all 13000) of them, almost everywhere...so it shouldn't be that hard

Robbie

"For instance most Civil War photos of dead soldiers, were staged using the same dead soldiers laid in different positions.

And the famous "Sniper's last resting place" photo was not even of a sniper, they took a body over 100 feet away, and gave him a prop, not even a rifle that snipers would normally use at that time period."

Now, applying your logic:

No, I don't believe you. Go and get me someone who was there, who can tell me first hand it was staged.