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Superman can save your life

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posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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Unless you have been living under a very big rock for several years you know there have been far too many unarmed people shot and killed by police officers. My goal, and the goal of this thread, is to find a way to minimize the needless deaths of unarmed and/or innocent people. The recent event in Mesa, Arizona is what got me started on this quest.

For those of you not familiar with the event, an unarmed man was approached by police in a hallway and basically terrorized into abject fear, then executed. He was ordered to kneel, raise his hands straight up in the air, then crawl to the police officers. He was told that if his hands came down for any reason they would kill him. How are you supposed to crawl with your hands straight up in the air? He was ordered to do something physically impossible and when he failed he was murdered for it. This has to end and it has to end now.

My plan is to start a movement that will hopefully involve police departments across the nation. It is called "Superman will save your life". When you are confronted by police and told to get on the ground, you immediately assume the Superman pose - arms straight out in front of you, body straight, head down, and freeze. You answer when they ask you a question. But you DO NOT MOVE. This is where the cooperation of the police becomes necessary.

As it stands now, ANY resistance can result in death. When people hear "he was resisting" they think he was fighting with the police. That is not always the case. Resisting can be as simple as trying to get a breath of air when an officer has you in a choke hold. He is trying to stop you from breathing, you are trying to breath: you are resisting. If you are on the ground and a police officer is kneeling on your chest punching you in the face and you block a punch: you are resisting. It is natural instinct. You can't help it. But it can get you killed.

Laying face down on the ground, your arms stretched out in front of you with your hands visible, and you are not moving, there should be no excuse for a police officer to shoot you. The bottom line of all these executions is that the police said they felt their lives were in danger. When you are stretched out on the ground, nose on the pavement, it is hard for an officer to claim he felt his life was in imminent danger. This is the most benign, non-threatening pose I could think of that would let the police do what they need to do and save innocent lives.

Of course, this will be useless without the cooperation of law enforcement. If law enforcement does not believe this is sufficient or safe it will accomplish nothing.

So ATS, I ask you, help me refine this plan and take the final version to the local law enforcement and see what their reaction is. If we get enough positive feedback maybe we can actually make a difference instead of just talking about it.
edit on 10-12-2017 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2017 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Of course, this will be useless without the cooperation of law enforcement. If law enforcement does not believe this is sufficient or safe it will accomplish nothing.


i appreciate the thought you've put into this, but i believe this will be the sticking point... that some in law enforcement are operating on such a hair trigger that nothing will be sufficient, to them. that's why i believe police training and screening of recruits is where the change needs to start.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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What your are proposing does make sense and was brought up by other in the Mesa thread. I feel that would be the only thing you could do when in a situation that direr.

How do you propose we take this to our local police station? Is there something we could print out and bring them along with calmly explaining our stance? Would definitely need a plan in order to make it policy.

I would definitely be willing to take some sort of plan to my main police station and record it to show how they react.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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As a matter of fact, this was the exact method and reasoning I was thinking to save our own life. You know that the responding officers want to murder you when they intentionally are trying to make it difficult for themselves to take you into custody. I will never comply with an officer asking me to move to him with guns drawn. I will just eat floor and leave my hands out exactly the way you described.

Glad you put this out here. You got it down exactly how I was thinking. Although if they get all threatening with your refusal to move, it may just be best to say "I am already dead because you are here. So you can kill me in this vulnerable non threatening position if you must for no reason, but I will not give you a reason to do it by walking towards you with weapons pointed at me."

This of course would be recorded on camera, and would be quite damning if they decided to kill you for no reason at all. But since we are going to be killed for approaching them and tripping and falling anyways, laying down would probably help in getting a conviction to an ass raping prison.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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I would love to know when Judge Dredd became the normal way for policing A civilised society, I guess I could make a radical suggestion, dissarm your society. Oh but guns dont kill people, maybe people dont have the knowledge that when they pull the trigger a bullet comes out.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel


Of course, this will be useless without the cooperation of law enforcement. If law enforcement does not believe this is sufficient or safe it will accomplish nothing.



There is the crux of the matter.

Corruption and integrity will not coexist. Each will always try to eliminate the other. A corrupt government will not tolerate law enforcement with integrity, and vice versa, and vice versa again. So the question is, do you believe federal, state, and local governments in general have integrity, or are they corrupt?

I'd wager that most people on ATS recognize the corruption in federal government. That recognition may wax and wane based on which "side" is in charge, but the corruption doesn't go away.

Many people who keep up with current events will recognize the corruption in their state governments and just assume it's only their state.

Even fewer people might notice the corruption in their local governments. Maybe they'll see a story once in a while in the local news that pops up and vanishes a few days or weeks later. Again, they probably just see it as a local matter. Maybe they think that voting the bums out and electing someone else will end the corruption.

But the corruption is persistent. And the corrupt legislative and executive systems do not want law enforcement or judicial systems with integrity any more than honest politicians would tolerate corrupt police or judges.

If people started taking "Superman Poses" when encountering cops, the cops would just shoot and claim they were afraid of heat ray vision. Prosecutors and judges would back them up.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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How incredibly sad for you guys that this thread even exists.

If you're trying desperately to come up with some kind of bodily contortion or magical method to avoid being murdered by the people who you employ to protect and serve you and your communities then that is incredibly tragic and there is something fundamentally wrong with your police force.

Not you.

Not the citizens.

The police force.

As a whole.

I am not suggesting by that, that all officers are bad people, or even bad police officers, but when the citizens of the communities they are intended to look after are trying to come up with some kind of method to avoid being needlessly and wantonly gunned down in the streets there is a major problem with the system.

Unfortunately, I think you're right with the above. Grovelling face down in the dirt seems like the only reasonable option to avoid summary execution. Even then I can see the possibility that this may not be sufficient to avoid it.

I understand that, due to the number of guns in criminal hands, law enforcement in the US is up against a tremendously difficult challenge, being that any encounter for them, no matter how seemingly innocuous, may result in them fighting for their lives.

But, having recently seen the disturbing and tragic videos of the shooting of the unarmed man in the hotel and the shooting of the unarmed man, in the back, as he was running away, I feel there is a serious problem at the heart of your law enforcement system.

I genuinely feel sad for you guys over there.

A ridiculous state of affairs...



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: 772STi
What your are proposing does make sense and was brought up by other in the Mesa thread. I feel that would be the only thing you could do when in a situation that direr.

How do you propose we take this to our local police station? Is there something we could print out and bring them along with calmly explaining our stance? Would definitely need a plan in order to make it policy.

I would definitely be willing to take some sort of plan to my main police station and record it to show how they react.


There will be when this is as final as it can get. I will create a document that people can present to their local law enforcement with a questionnaire so law enforcement can make additional suggestions.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

The police are citizens under the law just like everyone else.

If they carry deadly weapons, it makes them a potential target and they should acknowledge that. The potential threat to themselves is part of the job. They have no special right of self defense above anyone else.

If they discharge their weapon against someone who later proves to be unarmed, then they have clearly murdered that person (killed with intent) and should suffer the full extent of jurisprudence.

The same law for everyone is just.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
Of course, this will be useless without the cooperation of law enforcement. If law enforcement does not believe this is sufficient or safe it will accomplish nothing.


i appreciate the thought you've put into this, but i believe this will be the sticking point... that some in law enforcement are operating on such a hair trigger that nothing will be sufficient, to them. that's why i believe police training and screening of recruits is where the change needs to start.


I think that is a great place to start. However, I also fear that the environment will in some way corrupt even the best recruit. That being said, it is in our own best interests to make an effort to help make the change possible. I don't think either side will make enough of a difference alone. But together we might make a difference. Ideally, it would be a universally recognized sign of compliance.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Indrasweb
How incredibly sad for you guys that this thread even exists.

If you're trying desperately to come up with some kind of bodily contortion or magical method to avoid being murdered by the people who you employ to protect and serve you and your communities then that is incredibly tragic and there is something fundamentally wrong with your police force.

Not you.

Not the citizens.

The police force.

As a whole.

I am not suggesting by that, that all officers are bad people, or even bad police officers, but when the citizens of the communities they are intended to look after are trying to come up with some kind of method to avoid being needlessly and wantonly gunned down in the streets there is a major problem with the system.

Unfortunately, I think you're right with the above. Grovelling face down in the dirt seems like the only reasonable option to avoid summary execution. Even then I can see the possibility that this may not be sufficient to avoid it.

I understand that, due to the number of guns in criminal hands, law enforcement in the US is up against a tremendously difficult challenge, being that any encounter for them, no matter how seemingly innocuous, may result in them fighting for their lives.

But, having recently seen the disturbing and tragic videos of the shooting of the unarmed man in the hotel and the shooting of the unarmed man, in the back, as he was running away, I feel there is a serious problem at the heart of your law enforcement system.

I genuinely feel sad for you guys over there.

A ridiculous state of affairs...


I love your post. But there IS something wrong with us. The fact that WE are allowing this behavior, the ones trying to effect the behavior of the fearful, over aggressive law enforcement by assuming a "Superman" pose or some other position seen as non threatening to them.

We need to have the law enforcement be the change, not us. They need better pre-employment vetting, training, strategic conflict resolution etc. and better use of COMMON SENSE.

We do need to change us, we cannot continue to allow and accept the assault and degradation put on us.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: UpIsNowDown

I would agree with you except the guy in Mesa, like so many others, was unarmed. The only thing that would have saved him would be disarming the police.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

You are probably right about judges and prosecutors. But what about juries? If enough people are exposed to the Superman plan and they see it in action in a body cam video at some point sensible people will have to acknowledge that shooting the person was not necessary. At least that is the plan.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: Indrasweb

Police do have a very difficult job. As you said, even the most innocuous event can result in a life or death struggle. I sympathize with the plight of law enforcement. But at the same time, I have to side with the innocent who are being murdered for no reason. That is why I am hoping to create something, anything, that will be recognized as a non-threatening response to a police presence and represent compliance. It is indeed sad to even have to think this way, but if enough people take part maybe that can change.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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Maybe you should also address why cops are so jumpy.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

Unless there is a set of laws that apply only to the police, and there isn't, they should be treated no differently than the rest of us. While we can appreciate their service, we can still hold them accountable for their actions.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: StoutBroux

originally posted by: Indrasweb
How incredibly sad for you guys that this thread even exists.

If you're trying desperately to come up with some kind of bodily contortion or magical method to avoid being murdered by the people who you employ to protect and serve you and your communities then that is incredibly tragic and there is something fundamentally wrong with your police force.

Not you.

Not the citizens.

The police force.

As a whole.

I am not suggesting by that, that all officers are bad people, or even bad police officers, but when the citizens of the communities they are intended to look after are trying to come up with some kind of method to avoid being needlessly and wantonly gunned down in the streets there is a major problem with the system.

Unfortunately, I think you're right with the above. Grovelling face down in the dirt seems like the only reasonable option to avoid summary execution. Even then I can see the possibility that this may not be sufficient to avoid it.

I understand that, due to the number of guns in criminal hands, law enforcement in the US is up against a tremendously difficult challenge, being that any encounter for them, no matter how seemingly innocuous, may result in them fighting for their lives.

But, having recently seen the disturbing and tragic videos of the shooting of the unarmed man in the hotel and the shooting of the unarmed man, in the back, as he was running away, I feel there is a serious problem at the heart of your law enforcement system.

I genuinely feel sad for you guys over there.

A ridiculous state of affairs...


I love your post. But there IS something wrong with us. The fact that WE are allowing this behavior, the ones trying to effect the behavior of the fearful, over aggressive law enforcement by assuming a "Superman" pose or some other position seen as non threatening to them.

We need to have the law enforcement be the change, not us. They need better pre-employment vetting, training, strategic conflict resolution etc. and better use of COMMON SENSE.

We do need to change us, we cannot continue to allow and accept the assault and degradation put on us.


I agree with you in that we are not the problem. However, law enforcement has no incentive to change at this point. As long as they continue to get away with murder there will be no change. If enough people take this non-threatening pose and continue to be executed in the streets at some point juries will have to start using the common sense the police seem to be lacking.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

I would but the reasons are too numerous and varied to address. I know police have a very hard and dangerous job and I am sympathetic to the difficulty they have on a daily basis. But I am also sympathetic to the innocent people who are being killed for no good reason.

I am addressing the part of this equation that I may actually be able to change. It is the only thing I can do but I am going to do it as best I can.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

The only reason this injustice made it into the public realm is because of the body cam.

Usually, they turn it off, or hide the footage from public scrutiny.

Cops should be made to wear them on duty and only get paid for the time they are turned on, during their shift. They should create a separate body of review, check the cameras in and out from the same vault they check out rifles and shotguns prior to heading out for their shift.

IOW, get issued, install and check for function, their body cam before leaving the station, then return it when they come back. No on off switch and remote feed back to the 'cage' or room where they are being recorded by the independent monitoring and revue service. Soldiers in the field have this technology and use it.

If cameras fail, get lost or turn off for any reason they should return to the staton and secure another one.

After all they have no right to privacy on duty, they are public servants. Their responsibility during public office includes the use of deadly force against the Public. They should, while on duty, be as available and scrutinized as this incident in that hotel hallway turns out to have been.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

I agree but that doesn't change what is happening. While I find it personally disgusting to think have to go to these lengths to secure our own safety from those hired to protect us it is what it is. If we can make a change that will be universally recognized as non-threatening compliance and juries are willing to acknowledge that then maybe we can make a difference.



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