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GOP Tax plan "riddled with loopholes just begging to be exploited"

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posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 09:16 AM
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This is pretty obviously just a poorly disguised corporate tax cut typical of Republican administrations.
Historically the Mellon Tax Cuts in the 1920's did stimulate the US economy.
The stock market was driven up by greedy investors unchecked until 1929 when it finally imploded.

Theoretically a modern decade of economic expansion fueled by Mellon style tax cuts could have some beneficial trickle down effects for the millennial population. Fixed income folks always suffer during economic expansion due to inflation though.




posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 09:21 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: rickymouse

The whole point of this “tax reform” is to raise taxes on the working class to give more to the rich. The other broken promise was to simplify. But if they did that, then even ignorant people could see what the republicans are doing.


The consumer pays the taxes. They always have. When you go buy a stalk of celery, you are paying the taxes of the farm that grew it, part of the taxes of the company that shipped it, the taxes of the workers who worked on it, and part of the taxes of the store and store workers that sold it.

People pass on the taxes they pay to the consumer. Every company has paperwork to do involving tax, the people need to be paid that do that. That is also eventually paid by the consumer too. Also, if a company pays twenty percent tax, they tend to make sure and collect twenty five percent to cover overhead on that money, that extra percentage is also paid by people who buy the product.

Celery does not have sales tax on it, but that stalk of celery contains probably fifteen percent tax because of all the taxes paid on it by workers and companies in the process of getting it to you.

I took government and Econ in high school, I actually read my books and paid attention. What....didn't most kids pay attention in that boring class? The government takes money to run. We need roads and bridges. Businesses need to be able to borrow money to create products and jobs, the government helps them get started. We have to pay for the prisoners to be housed and fed, our legal system needs to be funded too. If people are allowed to rob others without consequences, then this country would be a terrible place to live. I think they should put the death penalty in place again for the hardest of criminals. We cannot keep paying for unreformable cereal killers to be kept in prison. That is my opinion though, I do not share that opinion with many others and I accept that and will follow societies decision on that point, but we need to pay big money to take care of those people. Don't complain about high taxes if you do not think these people should have the death penalty.

I think that students should be required to have economy class for three years of high school so this stuff can be driven into their head. If they do not pass with at least a B, they should not be allowed to attend college.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse

If celery gets to the point I can’t afford it, I will do without celery and darn sure won’t take a loan for it. I haven’t bought a new car in 15 yrs and paid cash for my house. That’s the economics I taught my three kids.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I’m very happy for you.

I worked 40 yrs. The only thing i know for sure, my fed tax will increase about 1000 in house version. I assume that means I will go from 15 to 25. If you are working class then you deserve the break.


That makes no sense. if you are making over $75k a year (assuming you are married and file jointly) then you were already at 25% with the current plan. There are only 2 small income brackets that are going up. The majority is median or going down.




posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I’m really confused which plan is the one. The house plan will raise my fed tax owed from 3300 to 4300 according to tax calculator you posted.
edit on 10-12-2017 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 10:39 AM
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GOP Tax plan "riddled with loopholes just begging to be exploited"


I plan on taking advantage of every loophole allowed. I'm astonished why everyone hasn't declared themselves a corporation. File for an LLC or an Scorp and play with the big boys.

www.incorporate.com...

Anyone that thinks Trumps new Trickle down economy will benefit the American working man is fooling themselves and just buying into the right wing narrative.
edit on 10-12-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Thorneblood
So am I the only one who thinks that some sort of independent, non partisan group should draft the tax laws or is that insane at this point?


Is there any group out there like that?And could Congress agree with it?



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I’m very happy for you.

I worked 40 yrs. The only thing i know for sure, my fed tax will increase about 1000 in house version. I assume that means I will go from 15 to 25. If you are working class then you deserve the break.


That makes no sense. if you are making over $75k a year (assuming you are married and file jointly) then you were already at 25% with the current plan. There are only 2 small income brackets that are going up. The majority is median or going down.


Um, literally everyone pays within that 10% bracket. A significant number of people don't even earn enough to make it into the next bracket, or very little more than that.

Here's how progressive taxation (what we have) works - taxable (post-deduction) income earned is taxed in segments, where each segment is taxed at that rate.

So, for that 10% bracket - someone earning $9275 would see their effective rate increase:
[before] $0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926
[after] $0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113

For someone earning $37500, their effective rate decreases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) = $5160
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) = $4500
We can calculate from that where the breakeven point is:
($1113 + n * 12% = $926 + n * 15%) + $9275 = $15525, which has an effective rate of $1864

For someone earning $112500, their effective rate decreases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) = $24836
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 25% * $21350 = $5978) = $23251

For someone earning $190150, their effective rate increases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 28% * $77650 = $21742) = $46278
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 24% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 33% * $77650 = $25625) = $49516

For someone earning $413350, their effective rate increases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 28% * $77650 = $21742) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) = $119934
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 24% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 33% * $77650 = $25625) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) = $123172

For someone earning $415050, their effective rate increases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 28% * $77650 = $21742) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 35% * $1700 = $595) = $120529
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 24% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 33% * $77650 = $25625) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 33% * $1700 = $561) = $123733

For someone earning say... $500000, their effective rate decreases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 28% * $77650 = $21742) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 35% * $1700 = $595) ) + ($415050+: 40% * $84950 = $33980) = $154509
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 24% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 33% * $77650 = $25625) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 33% * $1700 = $561) + ($415050+: 33% * $84950 = $28034) = $151767

For someone earning say... $1000000, their effective rate decreases:
[before]: ($0-$9275: 10% * $9275 = $926) + ($9275-$37500: 15% * $28225 = $4234) + ($37500-$37650: 15% * $150 = $23) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 28% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 28% * $77650 = $21742) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 35% * $1700 = $595) ) + ($415050+: 40% * $584950 = $233980) = $354509
[after]: ($0-$9275: 12% * $9275 = $1113) + ($9275-$37500: 12% * $28225 = $3387) + ($37500-$37650: 25% * $150 = $38) + ($37605 - $91150: 25% * $53500 = $13375) + ($91150 - $112500: 24% * $21350 = $5978) + ($112500 - $190150: 33% * $77650 = $25625) + ($190150 - $413350: 33% * $223200 = $73656) + ($413350 - $415050: 33% * $1700 = $561) + ($415050+: 33% * $584950 = $193034) = $316767

The 40% down to 33% cut is pretty big; everyone else is going to see a small change up or down aside from the breakeven points.

Of course, this is all calculated from that graphic which may not be accurate given the weirdness in the bill.

Also, this leaves out things like payroll taxes like the fixed 6.2% from $0 to $127200. This caps out, which means someone earning $500000 pays 6.2% of $127200 ($7886), just as someone earning $127200 pays that same tax amount - the effective rate is 6.2% for the $127200 and below 1.6% for the person earning $500000.
edit on 11Sun, 10 Dec 2017 11:16:24 -0600America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago12 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 11:20 AM
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Who's ready for $5.00 a gallon gasoline. Yugggeee inflation is always a component of Trickle down economics.

psmag.com...



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 11:26 AM
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Lets just pass it and figure it out

It cuts me by nearly $4k and I can live with that.





posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Southern Guardian
I remember once, a long time ago, hearing that along with reducing the corporate tax rate a lot of loopholes would be closed, so that corporations would actually pay what the tax rate says they pay.

Did that happen? Are they really going to pay 20%?



haha you're funny. And no way will they pay the rate that they are scheduled to pay...what they will pay is very little or nothing, and then get a nice heaping corporate return on that rate.

A simple flat tax for both corporations and citizens would do nicely.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
Who's ready for $5.00 a gallon gasoline. Yugggeee inflation is always a component of Trickle down economics.

psmag.com...


Fearmongering. nice.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich
I've already seen benefits of Trumps presidency at my employer. We were on a pay raise freeze for the last 3 years of Obama administration because of how poorly the market was doing and since Trump took office, Iv'e had 3 raises this year.


Which market? The stock market has been on runaway highs for several years in a row now.



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