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What if AI/robot controlled society is actually communism rather than capitalism?

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posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 05:39 PM
a reply to: makemap

And it's not about the knowledge being freely available.

Most knowledge in society now is freely available if you go looking for it.

But let's get real, just because anyone can learn how to sew doesn't mean that just anyone is an awesome clothing designer. So sure you could learn to sew your own clothing, but maybe your clothing isn't as well made or it doesn't look as awesome as clothing designed and sewed by that guy down the street.

Sure you can learn how to make cheese, but you aren't as good at it as that lady two towns over and her cheese always gets really good trades while no one wants yours.

Again, we're looking at haves and have nots.

posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 07:03 PM
a reply to: ketsuko

LOL I think you've completely missed the point here.

The OP is about Artificial Intelligence forcing the original form of communism onto the world. It even includes a line about the robots living among humans instead of being "robot leaders or robot overlords".

How can I want robot slaves when the OP is literally about the AI robots being a part of the commune as well? I've even used examples of humans only having to do small amounts of labor because of automation (aka, the AI-robot's labor). There is no master-slave relationship in Marx & Engel's communism. However, labor from AI-robots (also known as "automation") is far more productive & efficient than human labor, hence why it would free up so much of our time.

Remember, based on the OP, these are AI-robots that have embraced communism and are pushing it onto the world of humans. How can they be embracing it, contributing to it, and pushing it onto the world without contributing to it through their own labor? That's not "robot slavery"; that's "robots leading by example by greatly outperforming human laborers & showing the benefits of their form of communism". The OP even says it's not the North Korean style of communism, meaning it wouldn't be through coercion or mandate. So how else would Communist AI robots convince the rest of the world to embrace their form of communism except by showing its superiority over our current "work or die" system?

For all we know, they could decide that humans are better suited for creative tasks & maintenance work while they are better suited for menial labor and work in previously inhospitable environments. That's not slavery; it's cooperation. Also, I've said repeatedly that I would need to see how it's implemented before deciding if I'd agree with it or oppose it.

As for the market for passion projects part: I don't see a problem there. Humans will always consider themselves "haves" and "have nots" based on superficial things. That competition in communities/societies will exist regardless of the economic system we have in place. Humans have created those categories based on everything from the amounts of livestock someone owns & the amount of social status someone has, down to the size of our private parts and collection of useless trinkets (like jewelry).

So you're simply describing a flaw in humankind w/that point, which has nothing to do with our economic system in general or a scenario where Communist AI robots decide to push their form of communism onto humankind.

posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 07:06 PM
a reply to: makemap

Well said.

posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 07:45 PM
a reply to: enlightenedservant

So basically, the robots are being the overlords.

Go back and see how many times you used the word "force" in your post.

If this is wonderful, you wouldn't need to force it. Robots wouldn't need to force it. People would choose it of their own free will, but here we have the robots forcing it.

Then you go on to say it's not communism because humans will never have actual communism, not the way robots would force it.

I don't think you get it.

It basically sounds to me like you want everything provided to you without having to work for it so you can do whatever you darn well please. So more or less you want all the icky responsible stuff to be lifted off your shoulders so you can just basically play all day.

posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 09:27 PM
a reply to: ketsuko

The work is your own work. You clean your own house(no more maids unless someone chooses). You cook your own food(No more cooks in mansions). You build your own things(No more unions required because the so called company which probably doesn't exist in a communist lifestyle build your home with you). These things can be joint projects or teaching(teachers). You keep describing Capitalism/Imperialism where you are forced to work for competition to live by the pay check or some pay. We all know NK had turn Imperialist in disguise of Communism.
edit on 10-12-2017 by makemap because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 12:17 AM
a reply to: ketsuko

??? I didn't use "force" once in the post you just quoted.

Then you go on to say it's not communism because humans will never have actual communism, not the way robots would force it.

LOL I'm literally calling the robots "Communist AI" and "Communist AI robots" in my posts. So how am I claiming it's not communism? Now I'm suspecting that you aren't actually reading my posts either.

Although for the record, the OP is describing the communism spoken of by Marx and Engels in the 1840s. You don't seem willing to accept that Leninism, Trotskyism, Stalinism, and Maoism are completely different from what Marx and Engels spoke of, even though I've already mentioned why that's the case. The OP even pointed out that it wouldn't be a North Korean type of pseudo-communism by literally saying "None of those fake communism stuff esp from North Korea." Yet you've ignored this time & time again, too. It's like talking to a wall.

It basically sounds to me like you want everything provided to you without having to work for it so you can do whatever you darn well please. So more or less you want all the icky responsible stuff to be lifted off your shoulders so you can just basically play all day.

(facepalm) Do you even know what communism is? Everyone in the community works together for the benefit of the community, including deciding what goods/services the community needs and then creating enough to fulfill those needs.

However, the OP is talking about an AI-robot controlled society based on communism (this is literally taken from the title). The OP even mentions that the robots won't be overlords or leaders & instead would be among the people, meaning they'd likely implement their form of robot communism by working in the community too. How is "AI-robots that work to fulfill the needs of their respective community" any different from automation? If anything, it's "willful automation" since the AI robots are the ones who want communism in the first place.

Also, what fool wants to work their lives away just to survive? There's nothing noble, cool, or admirable about having to do menial work just to provide for your family when we have the technology and resources to make that "work or die" BS obsolete. That's called "being conned". If in this hypothetical Communist AI driven society you and your allies want to do menial labor just to survive, then go for it. But don't act surprised when other people would rather spend their lives doing something meaningful rather than continue working dead end jobs just to make rich investors even richer.

I would have no problem doing 2 or 3 hours of community labor per day if I knew the fruits of that labor would be shared equally among all of society's members (excluding you & the other "work or die", of course). In fact, I already did that with my urban garden since I gave away almost all of the food it produced. But I'd also enjoy it even more if I had some highly productive and highly efficient AI robots choosing to do the majority of work, which is how I interpret the OP that you seemingly haven't even read.

I don't know about your beliefs, but I don't believe for a second that God put us on this planet to waste our lives doing BS "9 to 5, busy-work" jobs when we could instead spend our time being better parents, learning the Holy Scriptures, tending to His other Creations (Nature), working on solving the great riddles of the Universe, working to solve the great riddles of our planet & the lifeforms here, etc. I can easily imagine entire states/provinces dedicated to colonizing other bodies in space, or dedicated to figuring out how to extend the human lifespan, etc. But things like that won't happen as long as entire countries have to focus their populations towards menial labor just to survive.

People always complain about how bad schools are and how they're brainwashing kids, etc. Yet those same people then complain if we find a way to allow parents to have more free time to actually spend parenting their kids. People complain about how this or that religion is being forgotten or driven out of our daily lives, yet they conveniently overlook the fact that people don't have time to study Scriptures if they're working 8-12 hour shifts then taking hour long commutes.

I think that a society that automates our necessities and produces everything a society needs would free people up to use their time however they choose, including spending it with their families, learning more Scriptures, traveling the world, volunteering with projects to advance humankind, or whatever else. But you don't seem capable of seeing that as a possibility, instead drifting to the played out "you just want a handout, hmph" talking points that completely ignore everything this thread could possibly represent.

Now... with all of that being said, I'd still need to see how the Communist AI implemented its vision before deciding to oppose it or go along with it lol. There are simply too many possible ways to implement this for me to credibly make a conclusion one way or another without seeing a sample first.

posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 03:10 AM

originally posted by: ketsuko
Communism requires a command economy. That means total control from the top (AI) down. It means you get told what you can and cannot have, how much, and when.

I fail to see how that is wonderful?

Someone does not know what they are talking about.

posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 10:42 AM
a reply to: purplemer

Allowed/assigned duties are just another form of supply and demand.

Allowances are just another form of currency.

Free trade is not free when it's taxed.

Compulsory duties are taxation, and vice versa, and they're both forms of forced labor.

Whether the horse pulls the cart or pushes the cart, its still harnessed.

To a demolition crew, progress is destruction.

"Lead, follow, or get out of the altruists' way" is not a system that will appease those whose appetite is for the very meat of an altruist.

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