It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

SU-57, F-35 comparisons and upgrade questions for my self evaluation

page: 1
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 03:06 PM
link   
This list is to better inform me on both aircraft. I am looking for advice on specs, updates I am not aware of, and the rest. Because I have missed a couple of things in the past for example I thought the F-35 only had firewire instead of a fibre optics channel......I know this list could be longer but bare with me to see what I missed or have to change?

uacrussia.livejournal.com...
SU-57: Uses fiber optics for data transfer rate of more than 8 gbps
www.researchgate.net...
F-35: uses fiber optic channel for 2 gbps. However I heard that Harrison is going to increase the data throughput by how much I dont know which is why I started this list.

Su-57: K-77M has a 200km range and can create lock on 40 miles or more, made back in 2013 medium.com... Than it has mentions of digital arrays for its AESA which is something I have not heard about and would like a detailed explanation to what the hell that is? www.i-mash.ru... Its operational since they have sold these missiles to China sputniknews.com... Here is a picture of it. yanziyang.files.wordpress.com...
F-35 would be the JNAAMs which uses GaN MMICs which of course speaks of similiar technology thediplomat.com...
Test fire 2018 deployment date late 2020s.

SU-57: bmpd.livejournal.com... SH-121 radar uses GaN MMICs. www.rbth.com... tass.com... the last report was in 2009 that it was uses GaAS MMICs but from that source the MMICs have more than likely been replaced with GaN MMICs instead by just looking at phazatrons image www.ato.ru... ROFAR said to recognize a human face from 400km along with similiar tech being put on the mig-41 is a different story. Testing 2018 production 2020.....I have yet to see updates on this in the future. Current radar azimuth is 240 degrees. But because of MIRES and like the F-35 ECM arrays can change roles with the radar arrays. ECM arrays are located on the back of the aircraft making me think its a possible 360 degree radar azimuth
F-35 is using GaAS MMICs books.google.com.../apg-81+GaAS+radar&source=bl&ots=DaNfTQ7Dk8&sig=DlBw2m59HuuF_AgHrShrrnpaGlo&hl= en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7tYLU4ajWAhUl0IMKHa3EDPAQ6AEIYzAI#v=onepage&q=an%2Fapg-81%20GaAS%20radar&f=false Unless anyone has updates. Current radar azimuth coverage is 140 degrees.

Su-57 engines went from a 3,500 to an above 5,000km range giving it a 42% increase in range or more, the new engine is 30% lighter, less compression stages, less heat, and going from 33,000lbs to 41,887 lbs is a 27% increase in afterburner thrust. New engine 1st tested in dec-5 2017 expected in replacements in 2020s. Current batch will be 12 su-57s with old engine
F-35 engines www.globalsecurity.org... A: 1200 nm, B: 900nm, C: 1400nm. ADVENT is 30% increase so A: 1560nm, B: 1170nm C: 1820nm.
www.defensenews.com... -"Pratt & Whitney recently completed performance tests of an early version of the system, called the fuel burn reduction demonstrator engine, which proved that the upgrade could improve thrust by up to 10 percent and reduce fuel consumption by up to 6 percent, he said. Reporters got to see the prototype in action during a May 30 demonstration at the company's test rigs. " The new configuration is not funded through current joint strike fighter program of record, but if the F-35 joint program office approves it, the engine could be ready for the second round of upgrades under the Block 4 modernization effort, Bromberg said." They said possibly in the 2020s the engine will come out

SU-57 www.defense-aerospace.com... Uses smart skin
F-X will use smart skin as well scout.com...

SU-57: www.deagel.com...
Laser jammer is expected until prototype stage of SU-57 ends by 2019.
aviationweek.com...
Block 5 Laser jammer is expected in the early 2020s However Block 4 is yet to be completed once block 3f is completed by 2018 defensesystems.com...

SU-57 sputniknews.com... "“Each such plane becomes a computer center which is able to decide exactly what type of arms and ammo it needs for a specific combat mission. In the UAV mode, the plane can reach its target much faster with overloads of up to 15 G, while the maximum overload a pilot can endure does not exceed 10 G,” said Viktor Pryadka, the CEO of the Avintel Aviation Technologies Alliance."
F-35 scout.com... "F-35s, F-22s and other fighter jets will soon use improved “artificial intelligence” to control nearby drone “wingmen” able to carry weapons, test enemy air defenses or perform intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance missions in high risk areas, senior Air Force officials said."
They both sound the same but this is what is throwing me off. 1st F-35 "Air Force Chief Scientist Gregory Zacharias said that technology was progressing quickly at the Air Force Research Lab - to the point where much higher degrees of autonomy and manned-unmanned teaming is expected to emerge in the near future." SU-57 " In an interview with Sputnik, aviation expert Viktor Pryadka said that the Su-57 is a computerized multifunctional complex capable of flying on its own." So this means that the SU-57 can fly on its own what about the F-35? I have not found it any info if the F-35s computer allows it to fly on its own without fly by wire which of course is limited to 8g or something like that?

SU-57 SU-57: OLS-50M sputniknews.com... uses QWIP technology. OLS-35 had a 90km range seeing a targets back and seeing a targets front at 50km. However no new info on OLS-50M
F-35: EOTS www.deagel.com... third generation FLIR, a laser, and a CCD-TV. www.deagel.com... including short-wave infrared, high-definition television, an infrared marker and improved image detector resolution. No new info on F-35s detection range either.

Without looking at stealth RCS figures in which case some exagerrated and some not. The F-35 is still more stealthy than the SU-57 because smaller size and 10% more composites. Some argue about the RCS of the back of the SU-57 being stealthy or not but lets take a look at this image to better explain my next question.




posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 03:07 PM
link   
a reply to: wewuzkangz

www.f-16.net... If a SU-57 was to engage the F-35 in front to front confrontation. Would it still be difficult to get behind a supposedly more manueverable aircraft with a 240 degree radar azimuth? Also considering DAS in mind for the F-35 does the SU-57 still have a decent range to engage the other exposed 220 degree view that the F-35s radar azimuth cant cover which also results in having a higher RCS than compared to the front in engagement. Just how far does the DAS cover in range with its 360 degree view?

I am done for today. And I will love to watch this thread explode to help me as well

One more thing MAWS 101KS Atoll electro-optical system which allows to control airspace in the optical range around the perimeter of the aircraft, as well as to protect the aircraft from attacking missiles. Four sensors provide for infrared vision to help the pilot during maneuvers at low altitude or when landing. There are systems for generating interference in the infrared range. The Atoll also features ultraviolet missile warning sensors and 101KS-N navigation and targeting pod..... So the SU-57 uses infrared and UV for engaging missiles? Also the F-35 uses 6 sensors for passive infrared detection. There are talks of the SU-57 using both infrared and UV which also have their advantages en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 9-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 03:48 PM
link   
Size and materials are not the drivers of the signature for either aircraft. The F-35 will have a lower signature over a broader range of aspects. I suspect that includes frontal, which the T-50 was optimized for.
The T-50 is probably going to be more substantially more agile, possibly with better range.

I would put NG's third generation of LPI AESA up easily against the Russian's adaptation of their first real AESA an integrated array attempt.

I think the T-50 will be great if they can afford to work out the kinks. One of these aircraft is in serial production, and the other is in development with sensors which have never been deployed, an engine with 17 minutes of flight time, and you are quoting a lot of "paper" claims. It advertises a lot of features that have not yet been demonstrated. It's making the sort of analysis you want or are pretending at sort of meaningless.



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 03:53 PM
link   
a reply to: RadioRobert

"One of these aircraft is in serial production, and the other is in development with sensors which have never been deployed, an engine with 17 minutes of flight time, and you are quoting a lot of "paper" claims."

The AESA was tested in 2012 and the avionics were tested in April 2017. But yet no results. So apparently I currently don't know if 2 years time is all that is needed. I know the new engine needs more testing but I am also stating each aircrafts future upgrade. And I am wondering if there are more features that I have missed since most of it is classified for both aircraft?

I also forgot to add that it has a nervous system. I wonder if that counts as avionics testing.......I think I have over hyped this aircraft


edit on 9-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 05:16 PM
link   
I think it would only be liars, wannabe's and traitors that answered none public information technical questions about current aircraft on forums.



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 05:41 PM
link   
a reply to: FawnyKate

Theres a lot about the f35 thats being kept from the public. Dont be surprised though if the f35 isnt the only extremely capable and advanced fighter weve got. Usa has a lot of things up its sleeves.



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 06:06 PM
link   
a reply to: wewuzkangz Is it just me or is the OP in more support of the Russian gen 4.5 air frame? Now I don't know much about radar systems but I do know a few folks in all of the main three branches that have worked with prototypes of all three airframes and have told me in very little detail that the F-35 is very much capable of doing what it is intended for. I say well pull out of the ME and let Russia handle it and see what they got.



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 07:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: wewuzkangz Is it just me or is the OP in more support of the Russian gen 4.5 air frame? Now I don't know much about radar systems but I do know a few folks in all of the main three branches that have worked with prototypes of all three airframes and have told me in very little detail that the F-35 is very much capable of doing what it is intended for. I say well pull out of the ME and let Russia handle it and see what they got.



Well if Syria has defeated IS and Iraq has, then Syria becomes more complicated no? You have a guy supported by Russia using chemical weapons and collection of rebels supported by our coalition.

And let's not forget hezbolla supported Assad and now they are rallying against the Jerusalem comments made by trump.

I suppose we all have to put our cards on the table?

It's either a proxy war or needs a negotiation or those F-35 may up against S400 and SU-57 if it isn't sorted soon.



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 08:05 PM
link   
a reply to: RadioRobert

This goes back to the comment in another thread that Russia makes a lot of claims that we don't see being backed up. Such as the claim that they're already working on a 6th Gen fighter that will fly before 2025, and will include being hypersonic, with electromagnetic cannons, and capable of flying in space, or that they're going to upgrade the Su-57 to 6th Gen.

Great engineers, incredibly smart science types, still not so great at production and making wild claims.
edit on 12/9/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2017 @ 10:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Forensick
"It's either a proxy war or needs a negotiation or those F-35 may up against S400 and SU-57 if it isn't sorted soon. "

I dont think the war is that heated. The US and Russia already have an agreement with syria. All I know is that there is a S-400 there, an s-300 which we dont know is a S-300V4 or a VM, and a pantsir-s1 system. What other modern system there is in syria I dont know. But considering these current equipment along with Soviet SAMs this is just a simple defense network which can be more complex if they wanted to......They are working on other projects like shoving brand new Voronezh ground radars that work in different frequency ranges that can process information to other SAMs,EW systems like Murmansk-BN and krasukha, A-235 project,T-14s, S-500 project, Status-6, Sarmatian missiles, zircon missiles, borei class subs, morfei and vityaz defense systems, etc, etc. The Syrian war is the least of their concerns. They have gotten pretty far with the SU-57 project despite being underfunded as hell. I think they dont care much about air force as much as they do with SAMs......There would not be enough SU-57s anyways to be up against F-35s.


edit on 9-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 01:15 AM
link   
Recently Russia has announced that the t-50 type is being put on hold for 10 years. I don't think the t-50 is necessarily a worse aircraft than the f35, however the first issue is the t50 and the f35 have different missions therefore would have plus and minus in several areas. Think p51 vs p47 right?

Both were wonderful machines and both could tackle eachother in various schemes. So to me, this sort of a vs b thing is really not productive in discussing the aircraft in consideration.



posted on Dec, 10 2017 @ 02:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Fools

"Recently Russia has announced that the t-50 type is being put on hold for 10 years. " Please dont listen to a US analyst that had nothing to do with the project. Listen to the CEO, military official and politicians (people with connections to the project) all saying 2019 the 1st batch of 12 SU-57s will come out. en.wikipedia.org... Its at its final stage. www.ruaviation.com... they have tested avionics, comms. AESA, engines.....Unless there is something else they are missing? Gorenberg is Russia's version of Pierre sprey. "The military is expected to begin receiving the first fighters in 2018, according to Russian Airspace Forces commander Colonel General Viktor Bondarev."



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 09:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: RadioRobert

This goes back to the comment in another thread that Russia makes a lot of claims that we don't see being backed up. Such as the claim that they're already working on a 6th Gen fighter that will fly before 2025, and will include being hypersonic, with electromagnetic cannons, and capable of flying in space, or that they're going to upgrade the Su-57 to 6th Gen.

Great engineers, incredibly smart science types, still not so great at production and making wild claims.


After reading this, I had to look it up because I love reading overhyped nonsense like this. For anyone interested, here's one piece on it.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 12:56 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

Well they have far exceeded what an ADVENT has to offer in specs and putting that into flight tests so there is no way telling if the mig-41 would be a hypersonic beast. After all now I just found out their EW systems for the SU-57 are using GaN MMICs?

forum.keypublishing.com... What would everyone's reactions here be if they have saw Jo Asakura joining ATS in comparison with me?

This going to be the SU-57 and everyone's impression should be the same as the image vignette.wikia.nocookie.net... Another badass ROFAR statement for lovers of the sukhoi. "ROFAR allow us to see the plane, located 500 kilometers away, as if we are standing 50 meters away from him at the airport, his portrait in the baseband. Moreover, if needed, this technology will look in the aircraft itself, to know what kind of people and Appliances are there, because the signal can pass any obstacles, even lead-meter wall, "- he said Mikheyev told reporters.

edit on 11-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:08 PM
link   
a reply to: wewuzkangz

You are completely missing the purpose of ADVENT. It's not just about the range increase, which other engines are going to see bigger increases. Advent is both more efficient and adds more power, and gives the pilot the choice between the two.

As another person put it, it's a variable pitch prop versus a constant pitch prop. With constant pitch (a normal engine) you can get some real efficiency. Or you can get serious power, and to an extent, you can get both. But the area you can have both is very limited.

With a variable pitch prop (ADVENT), you get to choose. You can be really efficient, you can add more power, or you can switch between the two as required. That gives you a lot more flexibility than you have with any other engine. When you're going to where you need to be, you open the third stream to the bypass, and you get an increase in efficiency. You get to the target area, close it off and get more power, then open it again on the way home for the efficiency. Or while on the way to the next target.

Other engines coming out are going to have a lot bigger range increases than ADVENT, but ADVENT gives a range increase using the same engine, by just pushing a button, or entering a command. No other engine out there can do that yet. And it's going to get better when AETD matures.

As for the MiG-41 being hypersonic, there is so much more to it than "Well they have far exceeded what an ADVENT has to offer in specs and putting that into flight tests" that it isn't even close to being funny.

I get that you think Russian equipment is the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread, but seriously, you should put some serious research into what's possible and what isn't with current tech, rather than "the Russian MoD said so".
edit on 12/11/2017 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: wewuzkangz
a reply to: face23785

Well they have far exceeded what an ADVENT has to offer in specs and putting that into flight tests so there is no way telling if the mig-41 would be a hypersonic beast. After all now I just found out their EW systems for the SU-57 are using GaN MMICs?

forum.keypublishing.com... What would everyone's reactions here be if they have saw Jo Asakura joining ATS in comparison with me?



I suggest you read the article and the links within it. There's plenty of reasons why it won't be a "hypersonic beast".



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

I was also talking about the max afterburner thrust which seems to be 27% more powerful than the engine when the topic 1st started. I cannot find the specs for the thrust percentage increase as of yet of what the ADVENT needs.

edit on 11-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2017 by wewuzkangz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:16 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

I only see one of those reasons being finance but how much finance if it was just one mig-41 in testing? Cant find the rest of the plenty reasons?



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:18 PM
link   
a reply to: wewuzkangz

Which, again, is so utterly irrelevant to the ADVENT program that it's not even close to funny.

Read more carefully. An ADVENT engine can choose between more efficiency and more power on the same flight by pushing a button. They don't need to change the engine or parts of the engine. They push a button and the engine becomes more efficient. They push it again, and it adds power to the engine. Push it again and become more efficient.

No other engine in the world can do that.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 01:20 PM
link   
a reply to: wewuzkangz

No one in the world has managed to build an air breathing hypersonic platform, larger than a missile that has flown longer than 8 or 9 minutes. Not in the white world. They're expensive as hell even on the small scale, and the materials science behind them is incredibly complex.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join