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Brexit deal: Where the hell is the outcry?

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posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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edit on 11-12-2017 by Whodathunkdatcheese because: Because I can't work out the formatting!




posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese




David Cameron never asked us what we wanted.

He asked if we wanted to leave the EU or remain , what other question needed to be asked ?



Brexit was always going to be messy and ugly and painful. It could be nothing else.

Brexit became messy when Cameron decided to cut and run , it sent a clear signal to the PTB (EU leadership) that the British governments heart was not in to doing what the people wanted , if he had stayed (as he said he would) it would have shown a willingness to carry out the will of the people.



I think the problem is our collective low understanding of how Parliament, the Government and the EU work.

Speak for yourself , some of us have been watching this circus show for years and well understand how they work , the EU want a deal it's up to our dear leader to make it a benefit to us as well as them , May doesn't have the kahunas to do that.


No. I know how the Government, Parliament and the EU works.

That's why I'm not surprised that Brexit is a mess.

We were told vague promises and lies about leaving. We were mugged off with a vague referendum question which gave Cameron and his successors permission do as they liked.

I'm under no illusions.

Our dear leader cannot deliver a good deal because there is no good deal on the table. A No Deal is Wall Street's dream as every last part of our infrastructure, including the NHS, will sold off as part of the new, corporate friendly UK. Which leaves a bad deal as our best option.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: pikestaff
The UK is a net importer from the eu, they need the UK a lot more than the UK needs them, apart from the tons of food imported.
As it is, America, China, and Japan all export to the eu, non of those countries pay a red cent to the eu common fund, why does the UK ?
America is Germany's biggest customer, again no payments to the eu.
No point in asking the PTB about that, no answer is ever forthcoming.


Now try some maths-like reasoning.

We are running a huge trade deficit. That used to be a bad thing when I was young but for some reason it's now acceptable.

We need that food and other essential imports. So we will import that stuff even at a much higher price. We don't have a choice.

By the way, don't believe all that pony about lower food prices. Jacob Rees Mogg made that up.

The same goes for German cars etc. We'll keep on buying them.

But the pound will flounder again, making these imports more expensive. Unless we can generate inward investment, without flogging off the NHS etc, we're going to have to tighten our belts.

Now let's look at it from the other side.

We don't make up the majority of EU exports because most of EU business is within the EU. Any businessman worth his salt will prioritise the largest market. A no-brainer. Google what the German Car Manufacturers Association thinks.

So, we will get no special treatment and we'll rack up an even higher trade surplus as prices rise.

True, the US, China and Japan all trade with the EU. Let's take the US as an example. It's a market slightly smaller than the EU but with much deeper pockets. The last twenty five years have seen an almost constant to-and-fro of trade talks. We won't take their meat. They won't take our Kinder eggs. And so on, year in and year out.

We have a much smaller market than the EU and have less money. In other words, we have much less than their leverage. And we expect a better deal? Stroll on.

Oh, and the US is not Germany's biggest customer. As Merkel reminded Trump, the EU trades as a bloc, not as individual countrues.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: eletheia

Aye removing the fact that we were the first to abolish slavery !

I'm sure it was Scotland not Britain so they got that wrong as well if im not mistaken.




Nope. It was France.

You're online.

Look it up.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

A No Deal is Wall Street's dream as every last part of our infrastructure, including the NHS, will sold off as part of the new, corporate friendly UK. Which leaves a bad deal as our best option.



I would assume then, that those saying a No Deal scenario is better than a bad deal are the ones who would profit from such a move?



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: eletheia

Aye removing the fact that we were the first to abolish slavery !

I'm sure it was Scotland not Britain so they got that wrong as well if im not mistaken.




Nope. It was France.

You're online.

Look it up.


It was Denmark in 1792 though the law didn't take effect until 1803.

France was in 1794 but Napoleon revoked that in 1802. You were close though...
edit on 11/12/17 by djz3ro because: I got my 7's and 9's mixed up...



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 03:36 PM
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Whatever happens I'll adapt to the new reality.
I don't really care either way, I'll survive as I always do.



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Sorry I was referring to the first country within the British Isles to abolish slavery , I should have explained that the first try!

edit on 11-12-2017 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2017 @ 06:06 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82

Aye removing the fact that we were the first to abolish slavery !
I'm sure it was Scotland not Britain so they got that wrong as well if im not mistaken.



Actually *Britain* is England - Scotland - Wales -and Ireland

Its in this day and age an old fashioned term...... Today it is referred to as the UK.

A bit like the EU it used to be called Germany!!





Anyways its #in shocking , to write out all the great contributions we have made to the world




Rubbing salt into the wound ..... We helped PAY for it!





Just adding this in for sake of discussion, around the same time of the Scottish independence movement, there was a TV show 100 greatest British inventors on BBC and not one of them was a Scot .
So it looks like they do this just to encourage a divide



A salve for your hurt feelings half a dozen of MANY


# Alexander Graham-Bell
# John Logie Baird
# Alexander Flemming
# John Boyd Dunlop
# James Dewar
# Thomas Telford ..........and so on!!

Feeling better??



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Only a Scotland with a polpulation of 5.5 million and Oil and gas revenues that are the envy of most countries in the world could owe a foreign country that has control over it's wealth £15 billion+. To put that into context, Norway just seen everyone of it's 5.2 million population become a net millionaire with a massive pension fund of over £1 trillion.


That is bull#, we normal folks in Norway will not get one dime of that money (not now, nor in the future). Our entire country is rotting, because of politicians that don't wish to use any money whatsoever.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 04:16 AM
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originally posted by: pompel9

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Only a Scotland with a polpulation of 5.5 million and Oil and gas revenues that are the envy of most countries in the world could owe a foreign country that has control over it's wealth £15 billion+. To put that into context, Norway just seen everyone of it's 5.2 million population become a net millionaire with a massive pension fund of over £1 trillion.


That is bull#, we normal folks in Norway will not get one dime of that money (not now, nor in the future). Our entire country is rotting, because of politicians that don't wish to use any money whatsoever.

I never said you would. But the truth of the matter is, If they wanted to, the money is available and you should be thanking your government for making sure the £trillion was not squandered like Westminster has ours.



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

thanks for your appeal to my emotional state or should I say perceived emotional state.

I am not hurt , I just think its a dis-service to those great people who contributed so much to the world to be forgotten in some garish EU museum which only celebrates what they want people to believe the EU is now .
Yeh im aware Britain comprises Scotland , England, Wales and Northern Ireland , but lets just be specific about these things
because its often the case the glory is claimed by one group for the work of someone else, we only have history to back that up !

Anyway how could you forget Tar McAdam, Jawes Watt ,or David Hume, and of course Rabbie Burns all making contributions to the world in some way and well famous for it



posted on Dec, 12 2017 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
If we had the balls to vote for our independence in 2014 Westminster would have danced to whatever tune we wished..ie, Full fiscal autonomy would have been on offer if we changed our minds and stayed.

People forget that the UK has or had at the end of 2014 £1.9 trillion £ worth of assets of which 8% of those assets or the value of would have belonged to Scotland. Any black hole in Scotlands finances would have been well plugged and overnight scotland would have been one of the richest countries on Earth. Unfortunately the #ebags couldn't see the big picture and fell for the lies.
Lies like, The only way to stay a member of the EU is to vote NO. (we ended up out even though the majority voted in)
The only way for the shipyards to survive is if you vote NO, (already lost the ships they promised, hundreds of jobs gone last week)
Banks threatening to close if we dont vote NO, (62 Scottish branches of RBS and Lloyds to close)
Your money will be worthless,(pound on it's arse and prices of food through the roof)

Promises of more powers, (Tories and there new bigoted friends the DUP just Vote just last week to take hundreds more devolved powers from Scotland including fishing) etc etc etc. The list goes on.
#bags voted to stay, So where have they left us. Still Westminsters bitch but now a financial basket case and it's getting worse.




Falls in the price of oil have taken a hefty toll on Scotland's economy since 2014 and, coupled with the country's huge deficit and sluggish rate of growth, independence is an even riskier prospect now than it was two and a half years ago.


Scotland's oil revenue is running dry




www.telegraph.co.uk...


The Information is out there. You just have to look for it. Scotlands new oil field, 2.6 billion Barrels, England steals it again.

edit on 12-12-2017 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2017 @ 07:07 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

I dont understand all this oil nonsense, the public are led to believe the oil reserves are dwindling , now why would an il company or companies let us know exactly how much is left because they can literally hold us to ransom, for the price of a gallon of oil , by claiming its a finite resource they can allow the stock price to fluctuate as they see fit!

I dont think we will ever be told the true extent of how much oil we have



posted on Dec, 14 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I dont understand all this oil nonsense, the public are led to believe the oil reserves are dwindling , now why would an il company or companies let us know exactly how much is left because they can literally hold us to ransom, for the price of a gallon of oil , by claiming its a finite resource they can allow the stock price to fluctuate as they see fit!

I dont think we will ever be told the true extent of how much oil we have

As it stands Scotland has # all Oil or Gas. That's the biggest issue.



posted on Dec, 18 2017 @ 05:08 AM
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Work till you drop

And you thought the EU was the enemy,? Trust me, in a decades time the retirement age will be 69 and working hours a minimum of 55. Bonuses payment will be Banking and the moneymans luxury. Overtime will be a distant memory, it'll be part of your working day. Every minute of your working life will be scrutinised for productivity. Your numbers fall behind, your number is marked.


Welcome to London rule with a free rein from Eu Workers rights laws.



posted on Dec, 18 2017 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

I spend more time managing myself these days , whilst managers in my work just have meetings about meetings.

I have to spend hours ensuring im using the correct budget codes

, I always feel like im doing other peoples jobs in here, finance, admin etc

and all whilst being paid the lowest there is , so much for the 3% pay increase.

So it already feels like everything is being scrutinised



posted on Dec, 18 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The Information is out there. You just have to look for it. Scotlands new oil field, 2.6 billion Barrels, England steals it again.



Hmmn....

Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would face tough economic challenges after data showed the country spent £13.5bn more than it raised in taxes last year.

The first minister confirmed that if voters backed independence in the near future, Scotland would need a dramatic improvement in its finances to bring its current spending deficit of 8.3% down to 3%, the level most economists see as sustainable.

The Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) report for 2016-17 says the gap between spending and tax income in Scotland last year was three times the UK’s deficit of 2.4%.

The GERS data shows Scotland’s total tax revenues, including oil and gas taxes, stood at just under £58bn. That left Scotland with an estimated gap between income and spending of £1,437 per head – the widest gap since the last Scottish independence referendum campaign started in 2012.

The Scottish and UK governments spent £13,175 per head on public services in Scotland, including schools, hospitals, policing, welfare, transport and defence. The UK per capita rate was £11,739.

Opposition parties said the figures exposed how unreliable the claims made about Scotland’s wealth by Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, the then first minister, had been during the referendum campaign.

In fact, GERS found the plunge in global oil prices and the UK government’s decision to cut North Sea taxes and increase decommissioning subsidies meant Scotland’s share of oil revenues was £208m – the second lowest figure since the 1970s.

The Scotland Office, the UK government department for Scotland, said the notional deficit meant public borrowing per person for Scotland was more than three times higher last year, at £2,453, than the UK figure of £704 per head.

David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, said: “Being part of a strong UK has protected our living standards, and that’s one reason the people of Scotland clearly rejected Nicola Sturgeon’s plan for a second independence referendum at the election.

“Scotland’s deficit is falling at a slower rate than the UK as a whole and economic growth is lagging behind. It is vital we grow the economy and we want to work with the Scottish government to achieve that.”

www.theguardian.com...




posted on Dec, 19 2017 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
The Information is out there. You just have to look for it. Scotlands new oil field, 2.6 billion Barrels, England steals it again.



Hmmn....

Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would face tough economic challenges after data showed the country spent £13.5bn more than it raised in taxes last year.

The first minister confirmed that if voters backed independence in the near future, Scotland would need a dramatic improvement in its finances to bring its current spending deficit of 8.3% down to 3%, the level most economists see as sustainable.

The Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) report for 2016-17 says the gap between spending and tax income in Scotland last year was three times the UK’s deficit of 2.4%.

The GERS data shows Scotland’s total tax revenues, including oil and gas taxes, stood at just under £58bn. That left Scotland with an estimated gap between income and spending of £1,437 per head – the widest gap since the last Scottish independence referendum campaign started in 2012.

The Scottish and UK governments spent £13,175 per head on public services in Scotland, including schools, hospitals, policing, welfare, transport and defence. The UK per capita rate was £11,739.

Opposition parties said the figures exposed how unreliable the claims made about Scotland’s wealth by Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, the then first minister, had been during the referendum campaign.

In fact, GERS found the plunge in global oil prices and the UK government’s decision to cut North Sea taxes and increase decommissioning subsidies meant Scotland’s share of oil revenues was £208m – the second lowest figure since the 1970s.

The Scotland Office, the UK government department for Scotland, said the notional deficit meant public borrowing per person for Scotland was more than three times higher last year, at £2,453, than the UK figure of £704 per head.

David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, said: “Being part of a strong UK has protected our living standards, and that’s one reason the people of Scotland clearly rejected Nicola Sturgeon’s plan for a second independence referendum at the election.

“Scotland’s deficit is falling at a slower rate than the UK as a whole and economic growth is lagging behind. It is vital we grow the economy and we want to work with the Scottish government to achieve that.”

www.theguardian.com...


Oh well. We best just give up our right to self determination right now. Independence is a natural progression in all walks of life, To be suckling from Londons tit 300 years later is just sick. No-one said independence was going to be easy, but at least we would have our own say. Lets face it, could it get any worse than it is now.?



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