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Video shows police killing of Daniel Shaver in Mesa, Arizona (viewer discretion advised)

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posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

That was more a commentary on his attorney's attempts at whining about the termination than anything you said, you were just the one that quoted the attorney's comments.

For me it's pretty simple, and nothing I've seen since my initial comment has changed my stance. It's a justifiable shoot, but I don't think it was a shoot that needed to happen. But, and here's the key thing, that's just my opinion.

And my opinion is not how shootings are ruled on.




posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: KansasGirl


I am a veteran, and I've been in situations with weapons and commands being barked and shouted just like this.


You must have some hellacious libo stories if you've been in a situation just like this then. I'm glad you know exactly what you'd do, though.


+7 more 
posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:45 PM
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Normally when I read these threads I end up on the side of the officer. Can't do that this time. That officer was a danger to the community and if this had not happened, he would have done it to someone else. He thought he was Judge Dred.


On the fifth floor of an occupied Hotel too. Shooting at the floor of the hall.

The community is far better off with that creep off the streets. I think the problem was the officer is scared of his own shadow and an innocent person died because some idiot gave him a badge. Nepotism, because no way he passed any kind of psych evaluation.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: ZombieWoof
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Of course you can check every box call this a 'good shoot'. Does the fact that this guy did nothing wrong, was not armed, and did his best to comply with conflicting commands being barked at him from heavily armed and agitated commandos mean anything to you?

"Wrong" is a relatively subjective term as you're using it here.


Was it wrong to waive a rifle around in your hotel window and point it at a highway, inciting concern and fear in other citizens? Yes, it could fall under disorderly conduct or inducing panic (although I can't find an "inducing panic" law in Arizona).

Was it wrong to, after your first mistake of reaching for your waistband, repeating the action after being warned that if you did it again, you would be shot? Yes, because even if it was out of error or nervousness or mistake, it certainly wasn't the right thing to do at the time.


I pray you are not actually a LEO and you're not in a position of authority.

And why is that? Hopefully you have a logical answer.


Here's the dismissal form


Thanks for that. I'd love to know what the arrest was for, and I certainly hope that it didn't pertain to the charge on which he was acquitted and was a result of doing his job...or for anything else that is serious. As for the rest of it, it all seems pretty trivial, I just wish that there were details included with each "charge."



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: SlapMonkey


For me it's pretty simple, and nothing I've seen since my initial comment has changed my stance. It's a justifiable shoot, but I don't think it was a shoot that needed to happen. But, and here's the key thing, that's just my opinion.

And my opinion is not how shootings are ruled on.

I could have typed both of these paragraphs and it would reflect my stance on it. It's too bad, though, that people assume that I would go in guns a-blazin' in this scenario simply because I can discuss it rationally and with links and understanding.

Hell, I still haven't been able to go back and read anything prior to my first comment :/ (other than the OP, of course)



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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SERVE AND PROTECT ???????


NO


dumb , nasty , gutless psychopath

I feel sorry for youse ,

forced to swim in a tank full of hungry white pointers every day ....
... end of rant



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:53 PM
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This is horrible. I feel for the family, but the LEOs apparently didn't want to take the chance as he was crawling and saw him reach with his right arm to what looked like his waistband. Tough one to call.

I feel for everyone involved.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

The details are on page five of the "dump" that contains his personnel jacket. The conduct unbecoming, discourtesy, willful disobedience, etc. are all related to the shooting incident, specifically the ejection port cover inscription (which, incidentally, how big of a retard do you have to be to think that's a good idea to do?).

The "don't get arrested" is in fact the arrest on 2nd Degree Murder charges.
edit on 8-12-2017 by Shamrock6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

So everything surrounds the case in which he was acquitted? That's pretty sad, right there...and to do it so relatively soon after the event.

One not that I did read, though, is that the AR was his own private rifle, and that it was inspected and approved for use prior to him using it in the field. So, my question would then be, did he have that dust cover on there prior to the inspection or after, and if it was installed during the inspection, why wasn't it an issue at that point, and only after a high-profile shooting?



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

That's where I'm at. I don't like it. I'm sort of glad he isn't employed and on the streets anymore. He doesn't seem to be the brightest tool in the shed. I don't think I would have reacted the same. That's easy to say when I'm sitting in a chair and not responding to a firearm call. Five of the other officers present did not (I assume at least three of the other officers had a weapon drawn and did not fire). I think the way this was handled contributed to the outcome, and it was undeniably tragic. I think a wrongful death suit is appropriate.
At the same time, they were responding to reports of a firearm, and the guy reached more than once for his waistline, and the reaction of the officer in question is consistent with his testimony that he believed there was a weapon, and this seems a reasonable inference based on evidence available at the time.
Nothing about this comes close to meeting the requirements for a murder charge, and I think the prosecutor did himself and the community (to say nothing of the family) a disservice by bringing the charges.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:18 PM
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The guy should of been shot the first time he put his hands behind it back. I thought he was going for a pistol.

Way too many people shooting at cops to take a stupid chance like this cop did by not shooting him instantly. Anyone who thinks the cop was in the wrong hasn't seen enough reality internet.

Cops don't have ESP, they don't know he was a great guy with a family and it was only a pellet gun.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Man,what a sadistic prick of a pig,and I bet he will still sleep well at night.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

Yes, that was an execution. My question is.......who trained that guy?



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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Furtive movements, guys.

He was given plenty of chances to stop reaching into locations one normally keeps a gun, after being reported with a gun.

The real question is who and why called in the first place and what were the circumstances? Having a gun is not illegal, by default. Certain actions, circumstances or local laws may make possession/carrying illegal, but generally they are legal. There has to be more to this story, for instance waving the "gun" around or threatening someone with it.

I have heard of anti-gunners calling 911 over any firearms they see (and risking needless deaths), and in that case the only thing you can do is cooperate and let them verify everything is good. We could push for laws that heavily punish false 911 calls against CHL/CCW people, but nocompliance in a dangerous situation will only get you killed.

It is a sad ending, but it really highlights the importance of following lawful orders. Those guys had no idea what was going on, other than the dispatch given to them over the radio.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: NOrrTH


My thoughts exactly.

How many of these have you seen precisely that? I can think of 2 dozen off the top of my head alone.

He very clearly verbalized his suspicion, and after multiple warnings and chances (that even put officer lives at risk) he still refused to stop acting like he was reaching for a gun.

Small of back or right hip is a very common place for holsters weapons. As are pockets, waistbands etc.

Thank the gangbangers and cop killers for the current high state of awareness.
edit on 12/8/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

The way these cops, including the one barking orders, went about disarming these people was wrong, and was a contributing factor in this death. Maybe if they actually allowed him to speak, asked a few questions, things might have been different. The guy was freaked out, but didn't deserve to die for that. Obviously they had a major case of god complex.

Don't go full-lawyer on me now!

I wouldn't want you on the street because you think this was justifiable. Might as well put robocop out there if humans can't apply critical thinking, treat people with respect and make good choices in stressful situations.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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He was showing a co-worker his pellet gun in his room. The gun was used in his pest control job. Somehow, someone outside saw him with the gun and reported it.

If that idiot cop had asked the guy about it maybe he would have explained it and the situation could have de-escalated.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

The policy says any arrest, indictment, or commission of a crime though, it's not contingent on a conviction. I suspect that it's worded that way to give MPD an out precisely in a case like this: high profile event that's going to get a lot of attention? They don't have to wait a year to terminate the officer and cut bait.

As to the port cover, I haven't seen anything that indicates when it was added to the rifle versus when the rifle was approved by the agency. Might be buried in one of the docs on PNAC, but I'm not gonna go look for it. I do know that replacing that particular part takes a matter of a few minutes and about $20, so who knows.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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OMG yoy guys justify this murder because he MIGHT have had a gun. LMAO

You cant kill some one because he might have a fu$$$n gun. You dont shoot a guy who sobbing begging for his life and is absolutely no threat to anyone.

Im tired of the stupid ass he might have done something defense. When he 1st appeared in the hall he dropped straight to the floor and started begging . He was an obvious non threat.

How can you jackasses justify killing someone because he MIGHT have had a gun. He did not have a gun.



posted on Dec, 8 2017 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

That cop is an idiot. And a murderer.

Yeah Daniel moved his hand back, but that coward pussy should have gone to collar his perp LONG before the cop made him get up and crawl or what ever nonsense he was told to do.

The cop was scared to do his job and made this take longer than it should have. Plain and simple. The cop was SCARED to go touch him and secure him.

Some people become cops because they have no other marketable skills. This guy is not a good cop.


edit on 12 8 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



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