Video shows police killing of Daniel Shaver in Mesa, Arizona (viewer discretion advised)

a reply to: jidnum

But here is where the guy was wrong. He reached behind him or to the side of him which at that moment looked like he was about to pull out a gun from the side of his hip

I agree. That is one of the first things I thought when I saw the video, which was before this thread was created. That movement could be interpreted as a hostile gesture.

However, if Shaver had not been completely compliant but was willfully defiant from the start, you might have a point. But he was confused, crying, and doing everything he could to obey from the beginning, was clearly not a threat, and a mistake should not be a death sentence by a trigger happy cop.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: notsure1

I think a bit more caution could of been used in this case. How bout a tazeer instead? The guy was doing as was asked, however he also moved his hand to go vbehind... why he did that, I guess we'll never know.

That was a dumb move on his part but under the circumstances, I don't think you can reasonably expect the average person to behave rationally. There is nothing in the day to day life of most people that compares to that and he obviously didn't expect that.

I was once pulled over by some cops who got very aggressive when they couldn't see my hands. I just wasn't thinking. I understand why certain things make them twitchy but the average person doesn't know what they know. We aren't trained to have armed police officers screaming at us in a hallway for no apparent reason. They're supposed to be trained to stay cool and not to behave like crazy people. These cops were going nuts. The guy was obviously trying to comply and was basically just crapping his pants like any ordinary person would.

Plus, if you look for pictures of the cop who shot him, I'm sorry but the guy looks like a pit bull. There's just something about him that just screams psychopath.

a reply to: Liquesence

I agree with what you are saying. Why did he have to crawl to them with arms up and legs crossed? Why make it so difficult when the guy was obviously scared out of his wits, crying and possibly intoxicated? Even saying please don't shoot me. It makes no sense to me why he couldn't be frisked for weapons while on the floor and then cuffed. It's situational awareness and this guy seemed to not be a threat. The cop however seemed to be amped up and finding out that the inscription on his gun, I figure he thought of himself as a bad a**. This guy payed with his life for not understanding orders or reaching to pull his pants up or whatever the confusion. Should he have to die because he could have been reaching for something? Or could this have been handled in a more sensible way?

a reply to: keenmachine

if this happens to me ill just stay on the floor hands and legs out and not fu)king move, what can they do?

a reply to: notsure1

i really dont get why he had to keep his eyes down either

a reply to: notsure1

didnt want to look into his eyes as he kills him?

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: jidnum

But here is where the guy was wrong. He reached behind him or to the side of him which at that moment looked like he was about to pull out a gun from the side of his hip

I agree. That is one of the first things I thought when I saw the video, which was before this thread was created. That movement could be interpreted as a hostile gesture.

However, if Shaver had not been completely compliant but was willfully defiant from the start, you might have a point. But he was confused, crying, and doing everything he could to obey from the beginning, was clearly not a threat, and a mistake should not be a death sentence by a trigger happy cop.

thats how i saw it too. i can understand the cops reaction but everything that led up to that point had me questioning their actions and commands. guy seemed nervous as hell, abit drunk, and was dropped into a hellish nightmare that didnt make any sense

The cop said "put your hands straight up in the air and if you bring them down for any reason I will kill you". Then he says "crawl to me". HTF do you do that? And what is with this crawl to me s.hit anyway? I have never heard a cop tell someone to crawl to them. That is BS. And what was with that pathetic "if you fall you better fall on your face" crap? Yeah, we will just scare natural instinct out of you. We can do that. We're cops.

Phuck you.

originally posted by: dan121212
a reply to: keenmachine

if this happens to me ill just stay on the floor hands and legs out and not fu)king move, what can they do?

Pretty sure you would have been shot by that maniac.

a reply to: notsure1

its like the cop was waiting for him to make a wrong move no matter what it was

a reply to: face23785

POOR training indeed. "Crawl to me." Really? This is exactly why they're NOT supposed to give command s like this. It should have been lay on the ground with your arms outstretched and your fingers spread. One moves forward and cuffs while the other officers maintain the scene. This was so senseless.

a reply to: jidnum

Sorry the cop had his sights set dead on that guy. No way in that position could that guy had drawn and shot before the cop pulled the trigger.

The cop had enough time to realize whether or not the guy had a gun and shoot the guy before he could have responded. The cop was waiting to shoot at the first chance he felt he could get away with it.

Maybe Jerry Miculek coulda pulled it off in that guy's position. :/

I’ve been stopped by cops maybe 100 times back in the day.

Of course that was when I wasn’t always on the up and up.

That’s the point on the street, you learn how to deal with cops and I learned young. Because I had to when after five minutes leaving my home a cop would be on me....rousting me.

But what people don’t realize or understand when I tell them NEVER talk back to cops, and always do everything they tell you to do to the tee.
Is that every contact with a cop is potentially deadly...

If they tell you to jump its how high officer… DON'T BE A TOUGH GUY; BE ALERT AND DO EVERYTHING HE OR SHE TELLS YOU TO THE TEE!

This is learned from the street…

Why don’t you think many actual criminals are rarely shot down, it’s because they know how to act when a cop rousts them.

Everybody here take the lesson of this terrible experience to heart

Your life may depend on it.

And I don’t want to hear the usual…
F___ THE COPS. I AINT KISSING NO COPS ASS. I HAVE RIGHTS.

That kind of attitude can get you killed like this poor young man.

a reply to: BlackmoonJester

yep

a reply to: Liquesence

Hindsight is 20/20. We know now he wasn't armed or a threat but in the heat of th moment the cop didn't know it was a pellet gun, the cop didn't know if he had other weapons. he saw the hostile gesture and training kicked in.

I really don't like people arguing about "After the fact" things. Discuss what happened in the moment within the context of the moment. Could the cop handled it differently? yes. Could the guy not have put his had around his back and made it look like he was grabbing for a gun? yes. But that's not how it went down.

I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says, that guy looked like he was about to pull a gun out of it's holster as a last act of desperation.

I mean cmon, who ever said a man pleading for his life and crying while having a gun pointed at him is automatically a non threat?

I'm not saying he was a threat, but for all you know, the person who reported the "scoped gun" probably thought it was a real high powered rifle and not a pellet gun. Therefore the cop was on high alert because of the info that was relayed to him. IF he knew it was a pellet gun I doubt it would have gone down like that.

a reply to: robynd0623

Are you sure? Did you ask him? or are you just assuming?

I swear, people are so quick to jump to conclusions without actually analyzing what went down.

originally posted by: Willtell
I’ve been stopped by cops maybe 100 times back in the day.

Of course that was when I wasn’t always on the up and up.

That’s the point on the street, you learn how to deal with cops and I learned young. Because I had to when after five minutes leaving my home a cop would be on me....rousting me.

But what people don’t realize or understand when I tell them NEVER talk back to cops, and always do everything they tell you to do to the tee.
Is that every contact with a cop is potentially deadly...

If they tell you to jump its how high officer… DON'T BE A TOUGH GUY; BE ALERT AND DO EVERYTHING HE OR SHE TELLS YOU TO THE TEE!

This is learned from the street…

Why don’t you think many actual criminals are rarely shot down, it’s because they know how to act when a cop rousts them.

Everybody here take the lesson of this terrible experience to heart

Your life may depend on it.

But is that the system we must accept? Obey or die? How has it come to this? And if we all comply no matter what, will it change or get worse? I won't say you are kissing ass, but is this allowance led to where we are now? Or if everyone said how high should I jump officer would things be better? In this case this guy really didn't do anything so terrible to lose his life. I think he was rattled and rightly so.

originally posted by: dan121212
a reply to: keenmachine

if this happens to me ill just stay on the floor hands and legs out and not fu)king move, what can they do?

I agree this may have been the best move and if the cop was gonna kill him then there would no reaching excuse to fall back on in this execution. But in that moment this guy probably didn't expect to be gunned down and may have not even known what the hell this was about.

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: robynd0623

Are you sure? Did you ask him? or are you just assuming?

I swear, people are so quick to jump to conclusions without actually analyzing what went down.

a check for weapons while he was on the floor and immobile and no one would have to assume. But hey it's just easier to make me crawl, hands up and feet crossed while barking if you fall it better be on your face. I guess the inscription "You're Fu9ked held some truth.