Undoing the Diseducation of Millenials

originally posted by: Dudemo5
Funny how conservatives have managed to label higher-education as the enemy. That's very telling. Stop it, man. Most colleges teach students just enough to land an entry level job (if that), and most teachers don't waste time trying to indoctrinate students into believing an ideology that isn't on the course syllabus.

This is all very goofy.

But you guys need your enemies I guess.

Millennials believe the things they do because of factors at play long before they started college, set in motion by the generation bitching about them.

Utter nonsense! There are a lot of Liberals who think our colleges have become indoctrination centers for coddling infants so as not to be offended or have their feelings hurt over legitimate debates. As far as teaching students to get minimum wage jobs, who's fault is that? What good practical purpose does all of these Social Justice Courses promote for attaining a good paying job after school?
College students who spend most of their time and money taking Social Justice courses deserve nothing more than an entry level low paying job because they have no skills other than consistently bitching that they are oppressed and victims of White Supremacy! Who wants to hire a whiner/troublemaker?

a reply to: Dudemo5
The generation "bitching" about them are not. What they are doing is scratching their heads thinking "how did we raise such idiots".
Let me tell you how it is. A famous man, or should I say infamous man said "give me the child and I'll give you the man". That was true then sa it is today. You really must be going through life with blinkers on not to see the social manipulation in all schools at the moment.
The majority of students want to just go through schooling to get a job, true. But it's the minority that have been "indoctrinated", for that is the word, by their teachers (and by teachers I don't mean just the classroom variety but other senior figures) that cause all the troubles inherent in social change.
Education establishments from 5 year old to 20 year old need constant surveillance, supervision and oversight to ensure radical teachings never take a hold.
Don't make me go into the "ism" because they are the supreme users of such indoctrination of the young minds.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Dudemo5
Funny how conservatives have managed to label higher-education as the enemy. That's very telling. Stop it, man. Most colleges teach students just enough to land an entry level job (if that), and most teachers don't waste time trying to indoctrinate students into believing an ideology that isn't on the course syllabus.

This is all very goofy.

But you guys need your enemies I guess.

Millennials believe the things they do because of factors at play long before they started college, set in motion by the generation bitching about them.

Utter nonsense! There are a lot of Liberals who think our colleges have become indoctrination centers for coddling infants so as not to be offended or have their feelings hurt over legitimate debates. As far as teaching students to get minimum wage jobs, who's fault is that? What good practical purpose does all of these Social Justice Courses promote for attaining a good paying job after school?
College students who spend most of their time and money taking Social Justice courses deserve nothing more than an entry level low paying job because they have no skills other than consistently bitching that they are oppressed and victims of White Supremacy! Who wants to hire a whiner/troublemaker?

You're entire post is whining, lol.

Rather hire a troublemaker then someone who equates rape as a "joy of sex," though.

a reply to: dug88

Not sure how that is any different than the generations that came before the millennials.

Most people seem to be stuck in their own little paradigms and have a difficult time accepting, or at least being open, to the things that may contradict their world view.

I've noticed that the older generations in the US love to bash the millennials and I think there is a reason for that. Not only are the millennials coming up to overtake the baby boomers as the largest generation, millennials seem to be very liberal in their beliefs and politics. That means they are open to change or being tolerant of lifestyles different than there own, and that scares the piss out of the older folks.

originally posted by: Dudemo5
Funny how conservatives have managed to label higher-education as the enemy. That's very telling. Stop it, man. Most colleges teach students just enough to land an entry level job (if that), and most teachers don't waste time trying to indoctrinate students into believing an ideology that isn't on the course syllabus.

This is all very goofy.

But you guys need your enemies I guess.

Millennials believe the things they do because of factors at play long before they started college, set in motion by the generation bitching about them.

I agree it starts before college but it definitely plays a big part. I think I'm technically a millenial, being born in 1988, and a lot of the things older generations complain about arr true in my experience. At the time I went, my school was free of such things as 'safe spaces' and as far as complaints about 'isms' and other bull#, our teachers would have laughed at us. I did not learn 'just enough to land an entry level job'. I worked non-stop 10-12 hour days at school and in the field then went home and either worked on school work or worked. Not only did I learn the skills necessary to work in my field, but also project and time management skills and probably the most important thing formal writing and communication. By the time I finished school I was helping run a small non-profit research group and teaching Biologists with over 20 years of experience new things.

Now the school I went to is full of the things mentioned in the article and the students coming out of there are far less useful than when I went.

And honestly, I've worked with a lot of people my age or younger and everything people complain about seems to be true in my experience. The last guy I fired was 23 he lasted at the shop for about 2 months. He had an opportunity to learn a trade and how to operate and run machines people go to school to learn. In those two months, he complained about everything he had to do, constantly mentioned how he would rather be at home doing nothing, smoking weed with his girlfriend and was unable or unwilling to learn the most basic of tasks (how to read a measuring tape, how to line up suction cups to the laser grid, how to cut something so it's the right length and on and on). Finally after completely failing to understand the basic premise of his job and making yet another mistake that caused damage and wasted time I very calmly told him to come over and learn something or # off. He said ok and walked away and never came back. This is just the most recent experience off the top of my head but I've had pretty much the same experience working with just about anyone under 30 and even some over.

The lazy, self-centered, seld-entitled attitude of millennials is definitely real and college definitely plays a big part.

a reply to: kaylaluv

What? Did you read the OP?

a reply to: dug88

The lazy, self-centered, seld-entitled attitude of millennials is definitely real and college definitely plays a big part.

I think college may act in a way of amplifying the problem but its something the kids acquired either by the parents not putting their foot down or it came in stealthy through video games and or TV .

It may all boil down to respect and that is some how related to curiosity and the effort needed to discover .The www and a computer can serve up mental stimulus we would otherwise need to go look for .That lack of ambition seems to be whats missing. imo

a reply to: seeker1963

You want interns and low wage workers writing up petitions to change dress codes? Because thats how you get interns and low wage workers writing up petitions to change dress codes.

www.askamanager.org...

Maybe that's because the intelligent people like me and self educating in highly specialized programs like the one I'm taking at WGU.

also Mills despise law lawyers police judges and the entire court system so maybe law isn't attracting the highest order of students?

Very subjective point of view lacking in hard evidence from some one claiming others can't think

On top of that we have a thread of probably old people offering little to no hard evidence or deeper thought process on the matter only conjecture

Oh I'm a Millenial btw and you probably won't win a debate with me

a reply to: dug88

Why are Millenials even in college?

I thought they already knew everything.

originally posted by: dug88
I've read a lot of fairly insane stuff lately coming from teachers and colleges. This is really a breath of fresh air and I agree with pretty much everything this professor is saying.
newbostonpost.com...

I teach in a law school. For several years now my students have been mostly Millennials. Contrary to stereotype, I have found that the vast majority of them want to learn. But true to stereotype, I increasingly find that most of them cannot think, don’t know very much, and are enslaved to their appetites and feelings. Their minds are held hostage in a prison fashioned by elite culture and their undergraduate professors.

They cannot learn until their minds are freed from that prison. This year in my Foundations of Law course for first-year law students, I found my students especially impervious to the ancient wisdom of foundational texts, such as Plato’s Crito and the Code of Hammurabi. Many of them were quick to dismiss unfamiliar ideas as “classist” and “racist,” and thus unable to engage with those ideas on the merits. So, a couple of weeks into the semester, I decided to lay down some ground rules. I gave them these rules just before beginning our annual unit on legal reasoning.

There's more it's hard not to post the whole speech. I suggest reading the rest but I'll finish with this:

1.  The only “ism” I ever want to come out your mouth is a syllogism. If I catch you using an “ism” or its analogous “ist” — racist, classist, etc. — then you will not be permitted to continue speaking until you have first identified which “ism” you are guilty of at that very moment. You are not allowed to fault others for being biased or privileged until you have first identified and examined your own biases and privileges.

I think every student going into University today should get a speech like this.

edit on Fri Dec 8 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimmed huge quote IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS

They also should be taught logic, the principles of scientific methodology, and what evidence looks like for an argument or policy.

originally posted by: toysforadults
Maybe that's because the intelligent people like me and self educating in highly specialized programs like the one I'm taking at WGU.

also Mills despise law lawyers police judges and the entire court system so maybe law isn't attracting the highest order of students?

Very subjective point of view lacking in hard evidence from some one claiming others can't think

On top of that we have a thread of probably old people offering little to no hard evidence or deeper thought process on the matter only conjecture

Oh I'm a Millenial btw and you probably won't win a debate with me

The problem is that many undergraduate communities now are going as far as saying classical philosophy, rationalism, open debate, free speech, and even aspects of the scientific method are "racist," sexist, or Eurocentric. By undermining these, it does infringe on acquiring a rigorous education. Obviously this isn't every young person, nor every institution. But it's a growing problem. There's also a concept of "the end of expertise." I think it's due to overly idealistic false senses of equality. As an example, I work with far too many intelligent 24 year olds who it's their first real job yet they insist they know as much or more as people with 10 years + of work exp and advanced relevant degrees, and that they deserve advancement more. That's not equality, it's a lack of self awareness and humility on their part. Or maybe there is a cultural element where many young people aren't being raised with respect and humility. Again, it's not all millennials.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: kaylaluv

What? Did you read the OP?

Yeah I read the OP. Seemed to be more bashing liberals than the other way around. Just trying to add a little balance is all.

a reply to: Lab4Us

Why don't we just be blunt about it.

People go to war with others because those others don't think or believe like they do. People kill other people because it's much simpler than convincing them to think or believe like they do.

That covers pretty much every ideology known to man, including political isms like communism, and religious faiths, but sometimes, when you make pronouncements about some isms being more deadly than others, you forget that the common denominator in all of it is the human condition.

And it turns out that simply being human and not being secure enough in your personal isms in the face of others with their differing isms can turn you into a murderous SOB, no matter what those isms are or of what character they tend to be.

People cannot stand the "other" and how it thinks.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: kaylaluv

What? Did you read the OP?

Yeah I read the OP. Seemed to be more bashing liberals than the other way around. Just trying to add a little balance is all.

Perhaps it could be that the professor in question was running into issues from certain types of isms more than others and those isms happened to be from a more left leaning perspective because kids these days tend to be taught by more left leaning teachers?

Just a thought ...

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: kaylaluv

What? Did you read the OP?

Yeah I read the OP. Seemed to be more bashing liberals than the other way around. Just trying to add a little balance is all.

Perhaps it could be that the professor in question was running into issues from certain types of isms more than others and those isms happened to be from a more left leaning perspective because kids these days tend to be taught by more left leaning teachers?

Just a thought ...

There could be some truth to that.

Millennials tend to be more liberal, which I think is do to evolution of society and not the political lean of the educators, and also tend to be better educated than the generations before them. So it stands to reason that this professor is exposed to more of the 'isms' of the millennial generation.

That being said, that does not negate the fact that all generations have those types of people within their ranks. The only difference are the 'isms' they speak about and the places in which they manifest themselves.

I'd suggest that those sorts of people of the older generations are on places like ATS and their "isms" find their way here.

a reply to: introvert

If they tended to be better educated, then this professor certainly wouldn't be having to uneducate them in order to teach.

As he said ... mostly their positions are based on emotion, not thought. That is not being educated.

a reply to: ketsuko

If they tended to be better educated, then this professor certainly wouldn't be having to uneducate them in order to teach.

That is a matter of statistics, not just conjecture.

But in general, I find most people, even if educated, have problems with basic logic and such. For example, there are only a few on this site that seem to exhibit consistent logic patterns in their ways of thinking. The majority are no different than the millennials that have to be taught.

But at least they are being taught. Most are never taught and never learn basic logic.

As he said ... mostly their positions are based on emotion, not thought. That is not being educated.

That is how most people are. Again, I can only think of a few that use their brains around here and not their emotions or personal biases.

a reply to: kaylaluv


I'm currently working on My 'nakedism' under My clothes... My ode to 'Hedonism'...

a reply to: introvert

Look, if he has a large number of students who more or less refuse to learn about Hammurabi because they feel that ancient Babylon is racist, sexist, etc., that is feeling based and not thought based. It's irrational.