Whistleblower: Flynn told colleague Russia sanctions would be 'ripped up'

a reply to: Arnie123

Please... Even if Trump is holding a smoking gun his supporters will come up with all the standard excuses. It doesn't matter what the news is, they already have their mind made up that he is some sort of genius that can do no wrong.

Pitiful actually.

There is nothing implicating Trump knew about this btw. It's all still Flynn.

True indeed. But what kind of info did Flynn have to offer to get Mueller to let go of all of those other charges--conspiracy, etc.--plus any charges against his son? Mueller's no pushover. Odds are he offered that deal because he got something big in return.
Flynn was NSA; there aren't many bigger fishy in that orange sea...

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Arnie123

Please... Even if Trump is holding a smoking gun his supporters will come up with all the standard excuses. It doesn't matter what the news is, they already have their mind made up that he is some sort of genius that can do no wrong.

Pitiful actually.

Cool story, but has zero bearing with regards to the thread.

CNN hit piece, unnamed sources, the usual ho humbug liberal spin. It is what it is, take it or leave it.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Arnie123

Please... Even if Trump is holding a smoking gun his supporters will come up with all the standard excuses. It doesn't matter what the news is, they already have their mind made up that he is some sort of genius that can do no wrong.

Pitiful actually.

You lot got burned by Fake News twice in a few days. Just a reminder.

I'm not believing anything CNN or MSM says anymore, I am waiting till the government releases something itself. Stuff gets so twisted by people and reporters nowadays. I think we are getting set up to not believe anything the press says or any real Whistleblowers say in the future. This whole thing could be to get us to only listen to official releases by whomever is in control.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

The source is unnamed, but they've apparently offered to put him/her in direct contact with Gowdy.
Mueller is fully aware of it and has taken "other investigative steps." Like the other tracks in this investigation, it's reasonable to assume he's much further down the road on this.

originally posted by: Gandalf77

There is nothing implicating Trump knew about this btw. It's all still Flynn.

True indeed. But what kind of info did Flynn have to offer to get Mueller to let go of all of those other charges--conspiracy, etc.--plus any charges against his son? Mueller's no pushover. Odds are he offered that deal because he got something big in return.
Flynn was NSA; there aren't many bigger fishy in that orange sea...

My guess is that he spilled the beans on the Obama administration. Flynn probably still has a axe to grind with them. My first indication of this becoming reality was the whole Flynn wants to publicly testify but nobody took him up on his offer. I thought that was weird. The MSM was shilling really hard for Flynn to testify and suddenly it just stopped.

a reply to: mzinga

How about Flynn isn't in office ATM, why is the left focusing on historic political malpractice? But Flynn...

News to crazies, there's NO obstruction because there's NOTHING to obstruct!

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: Perfectenemy

The source is unnamed, but they've apparently offered to put him/her in direct contact with Gowdy.
Mueller is fully aware of it and has taken "other investigative steps." Like the other tracks in this investigation, it's reasonable to assume he's much further down the road on this.

I do not disagree with you, but why leak this now, and why ask gowdy to investigate this when mueller made a deal with flynn for lying to the fbi?
Does cummings not trust mueller to conduct a full investigation?

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Arnie123

Please... Even if Trump is holding a smoking gun his supporters will come up with all the standard excuses. It doesn't matter what the news is, they already have their mind made up that he is some sort of genius that can do no wrong.

Pitiful actually.

Could it be that, no matter what happens during his presidency, people like you (anti-Trump folks, apparently) have your mind made up that he's a massive criminal and can do no right, regardless of waiting for evidence or not?

This entire story has zero to do with Trump, and everything to do with Flynn. There is zero gained from making this about Trump or generalizing people, who are still awaiting verified evidence against Trump before making a decision on his status as a criminal, as "pitiful" and "Trump supporters."

Some of us do the right thing and wait for actual, real evidence against an individual before condemning them.

a reply to: shooterbrody

It's a good question. I won't pretend to have a good answer.
Cummings waited until he had the green light to get it out there, and he knows Mueller's running with it.
It could be nothing more than an effort to keep the story in the public view. Much of the house/senate "investigations" seem to be just that as well--not to mention a whole lot of partisan grandstanding.

Unfortunately, we just have to wait and see where, if anywhere at all, Mueller goes with this one. That's where the real action is.

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Only because Congress stopped trump from dropping the sanctions. Do you people even know how to use Google?

a reply to: shooterbrody

Mueller told them to hold off until he was done with Flynn. Flynn flipped and took a plea deal. Which means he gave them information in order to get some of the charges dropped.

a reply to: conscientiousobserver

so why is cummings asking gowdy to investigate?
does he not trust mueller?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus


Mueller knew about this and only charged flynn with lying to the fbi, a process crime. So either this was not illegal or Mueller didn't have enough evidence to do anything about this.

Or option 3 is that Mueller confirmed this and it was a big reason why Flynn is singing like a bird.

Asking Gowdy to now investigate this is a joke

We agree there.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Again ... if the had Flynn as a part of some kind of conspiracy, that's the crime he would be pleading to in order to strengthen that case. Instead, he's on a procedural crime -- lying to the FBI.

Again, that's not a very sound argument but if it makes you feel better somehow, keep saying it. Did you happen to read the statement of offense? Here, I'll just quote myself from another thread where the same assertion was made.

That Flynn was illegally lobbying for the Turkish government is pretty much self-evident just from what's been revealed in the reporting but even it weren't, it's right in section 5 of the statement of offense.

5. On March 7, 2017, FLYNN filed multiple documents with the Department of Justice pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act ("FARA") pertaining to a project performed by him and his company, the Flynn Intel Group, Inc. ("FIG") for the principal benefit of the Republic of Turkey ("Turkey project"). In the FARA filings, FLYNN made materially false statements and omissions, including by falsely stating that (a) FIG did not know whether or the extent to which the Republic of Turkey was involved in the Turkey project, (b) the Turkey project was focused on improving US business organizations' confidence regarding doing business in Turkey, and (c) an op-ed by published in The Hill on November 8, 2016, was written at his own initiative; and by omitting that officials from the Republic of Turkey provided supervision and direction over the Turkey project.

While he was pleading guilty to lying, unlike with the phone calls in the first sections of the statement of offense, he's actually admitting that he lied about committing a crime — a crime for which he is not being prosecuted.

Right? Lying about illegal lobbying for Turkey is not the same crime as the lobbying itself. The Mueller team clearly could have charged him with acting as an "unregistered agent of a foreign principal" — which Manafort was charged with. In fact, Manafort was charged with both acting as an unregistered foreign agent AND lying about it.

So you're demonstrably wrong on your point that lying was the only thing he could be charged with.

and from another post here:

Now you did make a worthwhile point in the OP (and one that I've heard Dershowitz make) that I wanted to address.

When a prosecutor has a cooperator (Flynn) who was an accomplice in a major criminal scheme, the cooperator, (Flynn) is made to plead guilty to the scheme. This is critical because pleading guilty to the scheme proves the existence of a criminal conspiracy.

And besides, pleading guilty to lying carries an inherent risk of calling into question the credibility of the witness. Though, I'd argue that there's always a question in the minds of jurors about cooperating witnesses and whether or not they're simply saying what the prosecution wants them to say for their own self-interest.

Let's take a look at the statement of offense again:

a. On or about December 28, 2016, then-President Barack Obama signed Executive Order 13757, which was to take effect the following day. The executive order announced sanctions against Russia in response to that government's actions intended to interfere with the 2016 presidential election ("U.S. Sanctions").

b. On or about December 28, 2016, the Russian Ambassador contacted FLYNN.

c. On or about December 29, 2016, FLYNN called a senior official of the Presidential Transition Team ("PTT official"), who was with other senior members of the Presidential Transition Team at the Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida, to discuss what, if anything, to communicate to the Russian Ambassador about the U.S. Sanctions.

On that call, FLYNN and the PTT official discussed the U.S. Sanctions, including the potential impact of those sanctions on the incoming administration's foreign policy goals. The PTT official and FLYNN also discussed that the members of the Presidential Transition Team at Mar-a-Lago did not want Russia to escalate the situation.

d. Immediately after his phone call with the PTT official, FLYNN called the Russian Ambassador and requested that Russia not escalate the situation and only respond to the U.S. Sanctions in a reciprocal manner.

e. Shortly after his phone call with the Russian Ambassador, FLYNN spoke with the PTT official to report on the substance of his call with the Russian Ambassador, including their discussion of the U.S. Sanctions.

What I find interesting here (what most people find interesting here) is of course the inclusion of these facts regarding calls to "PTT." The lies that he told here were that a) he'd did not call Kislyak to ask him to ask the Russian government to refrain from responding to the Obama sanctions and that b) that there was no follow up call in which Kisylak affirmed that Russia was moderating its response.

The facts above aren't necessary to prove that those were lies as we all know now, there were intercepts which are direct evidence of the calls and their content.

Furthermore, in the next section, a similar set of facts are presented which implicate yet another person — "a very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" — in regards to a lie Flynn told about the UN Security Council resolution.

Now step back for a minute. The calls themselves were not illegal. (the consensus is clearly that the Logan Act is an empty threat that is dragged out for rhetorical purposes)

That doesn't mean that there's not a criminal conspiracy to be prosecuted if the conspiracy is to obstruct justice. If that's what they're pursuing, lying as he did would be part and parcel to his involvement in a conspiracy to obstruct justice. If the two unnamed people (assumed to be KT McFarland and Jared Kushner) also lied, Flynn can provide testimony that they both lied.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: soberbacchus

Let the following responses commence:

But HILLARY
BARACK was worse
Just wait Mueller is going after Hillary
Fake News
Anonymous
That isn't what Q says
But this isn't illegal
All just a witch hunt
Trump has done so much in office

What did I miss?

How about - Do you want fries with your Leftist nothing burger?
Because that is what this is.....the Leftists are batting 0 for forever.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Arnie123

Please... Even if Trump is holding a smoking gun his supporters will come up with all the standard excuses. It doesn't matter what the news is, they already have their mind made up that he is some sort of genius that can do no wrong.

Pitiful actually.

Cool story, but has zero bearing with regards to the thread.

CNN hit piece,

Dozens of sources. The letter to Gowdy was public.

unnamed sources,

The Whistleblower has offered to testify.
The other partner who received text message from Flynn during inauguration was named.
And undoubtedly there are text messages and corporate records to verify.

Lets see..

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: soberbacchus

Let the following responses commence:

[...]
Fake News
Anonymous
That isn't what Q says
But this isn't illegal
All just a witch hunt
Trump has done so much in office

You hit Fake News and Anonymous.
I guess next up is, this isn't illegal?

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: soberbacchus

Let the following responses commence:

But HILLARY
BARACK was worse
Just wait Mueller is going after Hillary
Fake News
Anonymous
That isn't what Q says
But this isn't illegal
All just a witch hunt
Trump has done so much in office

What did I miss?

How about - Do you want fries with your Leftist nothing burger?
Because that is what this is.....the Leftists are batting 0 for forever.

It took the Watergate investigation 11 months to start indictments.

Mueller is "batting" 4 indictments,including the Chief of Trumps Campaign and his Chief National Security Advisor, and 2 cooperating witnesses in what? 7 months?