F-35 BMD

Jeez Hunter really needs a reality check!

I'd say the chances of that approach ever being feasible using an F35 or any other current platform as about NIL

so easy for NK to simply run all their mobile launches around the country and tie up every single F35 the US has (not to mention the tankers too)

in the American vernacular, this is nuclear whack-a-mole, in the dark using a bow and arrow!

at least it's given me a good laugh too Zaph :-)

next of course it'll be the 35's or 22's with laser pods able to stop the ICBM's during boost ;-)

This might be relevant. The only known aircraft to have DAS is the F-35.



Seems to me like it could be a great idea to put DAS on a HALE UAV (*cough* RQ-180) for this purpose, rather than using an F-35.

Still, you would need an externally launched interceptor such as AEGIS or THAAD to actually intercept the ICBM, if that would be possible at all.

a reply to: intrptr

The Phoenix was not 'fire and forget' for long ranges, unfortunately. That's one of the reasons that the missile climbed up so high after launch. The MBAM (Main Beam Avoidance Maneuver) was when the missile climbed way up above the launching aircraft so it could receive missile guidance data for the first part of the time of flight. It went active only for the terminal portion of the flight, so the aircraft had to maintain radar contact with the target during this portion of the flight. I'm not really sure of which missile systems are totally autonomous at launch.

But for missile defense, you need a wide net of radar receivers and a boat load (pun intended) of missiles that can take out the dispersing warheads. No easy task.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Nvm. I bow to your obviously superior knowledge and abilities.

Them that know don't tell and them that tell don't know.

a reply to: cosmania

The Phoenix was not 'fire and forget' for long ranges, unfortunately.

Yes it was, in terminal phase, I think I said.

Mid course corrections provided by on board system. We can argue about the classified range the missiles active homing radar took over, all day. The climb to altitude should provide a clue.

a reply to: intrptr

Fire and forget is typically used in reference to being fully active at launch.

A missile requiring guidance for some time is considered Semi-Active and not fire and forget. In ACM mode, the Phoenix was Fire and forget, along with the AIM-9, but for long range targets, it launched requiring guidance for a good distance, which also limited the movement of the aircraft. That limitation of movement is a big deal, if you're in the aircraft, and I wish it was fire and forget, because I wanted to go do other things.

And I don't need to debate the range. I know the ranges. They were impressive, and long. Thank you AWG-9.

a reply to: cosmania



In reference to the Phoenix, once each missile was fired, it was "forgotten" by the pilot, not the weapons system.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

originally posted by: GrumpyBollocks


next of course it'll be the 35's or 22's with laser pods able to stop the ICBM's during boost ;-)

Its funny you should mention that because the missile defense system being tested to go on fighters could be upscaled in power one day to possibly destroy any missile threat. make them th esam esize as drop tanks and carry them on wing pylons maybe? of course you lose stealth but by th etime ICBMs fly stealth isnt needed.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

I did. I didnt say you did did I? You totally ignore the AMRAAM missile piece i see. the AMRAAMs are not fast enough to hit a ICBM before it gets too fast for it to intercept in its boost phase. Thats what Me and Zaphod are trying to convey to you.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

I did. I didnt say you did did I? You totally ignore the AMRAAM missile piece i see. the AMRAAMs are not fast enough to hit a ICBM before it gets too fast for it to intercept in its boost phase. Thats what Me and Zaphod are trying to convey to you.

Which part of the boost phase. Early on is what you are omitting, for your own reasons.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I thought we had a few of those.

cough cough

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: GrumpyBollocks


next of course it'll be the 35's or 22's with laser pods able to stop the ICBM's during boost ;-)

Its funny you should mention that because the missile defense system being tested to go on fighters could be upscaled in power one day to possibly destroy any missile threat. make them th esam esize as drop tanks and carry them on wing pylons maybe? of course you lose stealth but by th etime ICBMs fly stealth isnt needed.

I KNEW someone would mention lasers!

Listen, ICBM's aren't some little cruise missile or weak little fighter, these things are designed to survive re-entry levels of heat and ablation, MAYBE one day a directed energy weapon will have the kick to knock one out, certainly no little fighter mounted pod will have the power to barely even scratch the paint.

The pure physics of focusing enough energy on a VERY fast moving ICBM is crazy, interceptor missiles at least have a theoretical chance of catching one in the boost phase, certainly a laser will have no hope. A phased coherent beam weapon MAY work but that is a long way off currently.

Even taking into account the current development curve for electromagnetic guns, it's 7-8 years until one is fighter sized with steerable projectiles.

All of those points above rely on ICBM & countermeasure development standing still.

all academic I'm afraid, whatever is going to happen with NK will happen relatively soon unless idiot trump starts to think differently, a single nuke on a US city will look a bit tame compared to all of the NK artillery opening up on Seoul believe me.

a reply to: GrumpyBollocks

NOTICE I SAID SOMEDAY...sheesh. also... the WARHEAD and re entry vehicle are the only parts designed to handle re entry heat. the booster is vulnerable. cant get to space without it. also i seem to remember raytheon is testing a small laser right now.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

I did. I didnt say you did did I? You totally ignore the AMRAAM missile piece i see. the AMRAAMs are not fast enough to hit a ICBM before it gets too fast for it to intercept in its boost phase. Thats what Me and Zaphod are trying to convey to you.

Which part of the boost phase. Early on is what you are omitting, for your own reasons.

NO. i said that in the post before. you didnt read it apparently.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

I did. I didnt say you did did I? You totally ignore the AMRAAM missile piece i see. the AMRAAMs are not fast enough to hit a ICBM before it gets too fast for it to intercept in its boost phase. Thats what Me and Zaphod are trying to convey to you.

Which part of the boost phase. Early on is what you are omitting, for your own reasons.

NO. i said that in the post before. you didnt read it apparently.

I read you just fine. You disagree endlessly just to keep dead threads in the forefront. Knowing that I shouldn't respond to you at allll, from now onnnn...

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: intrptr

And, again, with cruise missiles it doesn't matter what phase they are in. We have missile defenses that can stop them in any phase. The only missiles that matter about them being in the boost phase are ballistic missiles.

So then the F 35 deploying to the Korea region won't be able to interdict a Korean ICBM during boost phase.

So certain are you?

Do you know how fast a ICBM is travelling out the gate? now compare that to how fast a Air to Air missile is going coming off a F-35s AMRAAM launcher. This isnt ACE COMBAT where the rules of the world are curved.
The only way for a F-35 to catch a ICBM is when they equip them with LASERS one day instead of a 30mm gun.

Who said anything about a "Gun"?

I did. I didnt say you did did I? You totally ignore the AMRAAM missile piece i see. the AMRAAMs are not fast enough to hit a ICBM before it gets too fast for it to intercept in its boost phase. Thats what Me and Zaphod are trying to convey to you.

Which part of the boost phase. Early on is what you are omitting, for your own reasons.

NO. i said that in the post before. you didnt read it apparently.

I read you just fine. You disagree endlessly just to keep dead threads in the forefront. Knowing that I shouldn't respond to you at allll, from now onnnn...

He says to cover his butt being called out for his Bs. lol

a reply to: intrptr

Well, not when I was flying it wasn't. If the pilot turns the aircraft around, while the Phoenix is in flight, it will not have the radar info to track to the intercept and will go stupid. The pilot will have thrown away $1 million.

There are limited movements that were capable by the pilot if the missile were to properly guide to the long range target. It's nothing like Fire and Forget, not for the pilot, nor the RIO. The pilot had to manage gimbals angles and rates, clutter, airspace, speed, etc. All the way until the missile went active or was commanded active.

So, no, definitely not forgotten by the pilot.

In 2014 an experiment was run to see if the F-35 could assist with missile defense. Using the DAS they were able to build a 3D track of the missile flight that could be sent over Link-16 to any missile defense system. It wouldn't allow targeting of the missile from the F-35 itself, but it would allow more accurate targeting by the defense systems.

www.defenseone.com...