It's official , Jerusalem is Israel's capital - Trump

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Good for the German.What about the Israeli. did they learn nothing about genociding a people?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

What exactly has the Palestinian not learn? roll over and show your belly to people who want your property? All these people defending the Zionist, I hope one day you get a chance to visit Gaza. Then you will know the meaning of hell on earth.

a reply to: enkilo

Haha. In your world maybe. The German army is good for recon and not even that is up to modern standards.
Again where are they supposed to go if not the land they legally bought? Why aren't all palestinians dead yet? If all humans have the same rights why do jews not have a right to a home?
Therein lies your attitude problem, you think, because they are a community with strong working bonds made up of intelligent capable people you have to protect those you chose to be the victims. Which aren't victims today, as they are doing all the hating and provoking violence.

a reply to: enkilo

No genocide in Israel, anything but. Palestinians have one of the highest growth rates on the planet over many years. Indeed Palestinians have never had it so good. Most love living in Israel proper. They have a life living in democracy and all the rights found nowhere in the ME. Arabs can vote in democracy, they can be gay and lesbian unlike most places over there, women can drive, women can dress as THEY want, they can taste the pleasures of a western lifestyle far removed from the medieval world found in so many places.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

we talking about the occupied territories here not Israel proper. your ignorance is staggering if you think the Palestinians never had it so good living in the occupied territories. Have you ever spoken to a plestinian in the occupied territories before you make such a ridiculous claim?

a reply to: Peeple

I did not choose the Palestinians in the occupied territories to be victims. They are the victim. Your attitude is similar to the zionist. Only the jew has a right to exist. It is a dangerous attitude. hating someone who is victimizing me is normal for all human I think. Why should the Palestinians be any different? What are they supposed to do? love their aggressor? You really have no understanding of human nature then.

a reply to: enkilo

They could live happy together with the stronger smarter tribe under the protection of modern, humane rights.
If they weren't so busy feeling like a victim and acting violently because others use them to drive their ideology.

a reply to: Peeple

Are you serious? So if tomorrow I come to your home and locked you in one room and will not let you out, take your property over and kill your family you will be fine with that as long as I can show you that I'm stronger and smarter than you.
I dunno if you are being serious but if you are, well I fear for humanity.

a reply to: enkilo

Well if you bought the property and the land owner gave me notice of that I'd do the civilised thing and move out. You could have the whole place

a reply to: Peeple

I did buy the property from someone else who had no right to your property. so what would you do?

a reply to: enkilo

Accept the reality that you bought it the land owner owned it at that time even if I don't like him.
Thank god sympathy doesn't rule over contracts, or otherwise it would be the worst kind of anarchy.

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

but they will not leave Gaza and west bank alone. their intent is greater Israel.

Yeah. The ones that want to colonize those places are wrong.

The ones that want to hold onto what they've got are right.

The ones that want Jerusalem to be the capital are kind of in the gray area. I don't think it honestly matters where you put the capital.

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

in a decade or two if the situation stays the same I doubt there will be a Gaza or west bank or any Palestinians left. Considering what the jew suffered in Germany this will be absolute proof that humanity does not learn from history.

Agreed. People tend to vilify and dehumanize historical figures who make bad decisions.

Forgetting that the German people who became Nazis were just as human as the rest of us, but made a terrible mistake.

If you fail to self identify with people who make bad decisions, you will fail to see it in yourself when you start to make the same mistakes.

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: Peeple

At the rate it is going there won't be any Palestinians left soon so they are already doing it.

The population of Gaza and the West bank doubled between 1990 and 2008. So I don't think they are in any danger of dying out.

en.wikipedia.org...

You keeping skirting around the issue of property because I doubt very much you would accept someone just taking what yours because of some fairy tale claim. So the Israeli have a right to defend themselves yet the Palestinians should just accept their fate. what kind of B.S is that?
yes, we must deal with the world as it is not how we want it to be but that does not mean accepting what is wrong as being right. Remember South African apartheid, it was a reality but it was still wrong.

The Palestinian population made a wager in the time leading up to the six day war. When they lost that wager, they lost their right to claim the lands they had evacuated from.

When you make a bet and lose, you're not being victimized. Or well, you victimized your self.

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: Peeple

my attitude is the problem. Believing that all human should be treated equally is the wrong approach?
As for not wiping out Germany, well for one their promised land isn't Deutschland. For two I think they'll find the German army a very different proposition from Hamas.

Promised land means absolute ZERO to a secular nation. Unless you consider yourself to be a theocracy and believe the world governments ought to become theocracies, that is.

And besides that, the promise already was fullfilled. The Isrealites got the land for over a thousand years. Losing it later, after they get it, is not a breach of contract.

But what if my god Uga Buga, the god of the people of "Bloodymarvelous" should then promise me the same land? Are you going to tell me my religion is false and yours is true?!?!? Maybe your god is the false one!!!

Are your people going to come and march in holy war against mine, for claiming our god is the true one?

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

we talking about the occupied territories here not Israel proper. your ignorance is staggering if you think the Palestinians never had it so good living in the occupied territories. Have you ever spoken to a plestinian in the occupied territories before you make such a ridiculous claim?

Firstly they are not occupied territories. They are locations lost by invading arabs who got their arse handed to them by the IDF. Secondly all this Jerusalem talk is non sensical, it's been in Israeli hand since '67 and everywhere you go the boots on the ground are IDF! Thirdly yes I have spoken to quite a few Pals and they do recognise the benefits of being run by westerners, it is in their benefit to be run by the civilised world that came from Europe! Ask any Zimbabwean if things were better under the Smith regime aka Rhodesia era and they will all agree things were run better back then by the colonise

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
a reply to: gortex

I think it's more the case that they are establishing themselves in the borders they were assigned, which were not respected by the Arab & Muslim world around them. They have a right, by most interpretations, to occupy the territorial borders which were explicitly (& in part implicitly) assigned to them after WW2.

You can't have it both ways. You can't go off BOTH the post WW2 charter AND the outcome of the wars. They mutually contradict.

According the post WW2 charter, they would have no right to exclude any original Palestinian resident from living anywhere. However, after the failed Arab invasions, the Gaza and West Bank areas were the ones they chose not to consider to be part of Israel proper, so they would have the legal right to exclude Palestinian residents living in those areas from entering the Jewish controlled areas. (Palestinians who never left the Jewish controlled areas were allowed to stay.)

However, if they go off these post Arabic War lines, they have to give up on all of Gaza and all of the West Bank, because those are designated Palestinian occupied areas.

That designation is the sole basis for apartheid. They need to either abide by it or give up on segregation altogether.

At some point 2 + 2 has to equal 4.

It's telling that you have made no comment of any substance regarding the indisputable fact that a Nazi philosophy & expression of political, intelligence & military aims against the state of Israel has been emphatically extant since the day the state was re-established.

Nobody cares about Nazi arguments because it is the pot calling the kettle black.

You don't see any similarity between forcing Palis to live in Gaza and the West bank, and the Nazi ghetto system?

The Israelis have the right to establish themselves in their historical territories

It is only their historic territories if you have a selective memory.

Furthermore while the current state of Israel is missing some land that belonged to the historical kingdom of Judah, it also contains QUITE A LOT of land that never belonged to Judah.


The Kingdom of Judah took up this area of the map:

upload.wikimedia.org...

The Nation of Israel takes up this area on the map:

upload.wikimedia.org...


If you draw a line through the West Bank going from Jerusalem to the red sea, then raise it up a few more miles, then the area of the West Bank South of that line was indeed part of Judah.

But pretty much all the territory North or South of the Red Sea was never part of Judah.

If they were willing to trade all the land they never held historically, to get the comparatively small amount of land they did hold historically, the Palis would be very foolish not to take that trade. (It would be a very unfavorable trade for Israel.)

it ok fortuitously recognized 6.12 or 6 6+6

originally posted by: madenusa
In 1995, the US Congress passed a law requiring America to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Proponents said the US should respect Israel's choice of Jerusalem as its capital, and recognize it as such.
So why hasn't the embassy moved yet?
Every President since 1995 -- Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama -- has declined to move the embassy, citing national security interests.www.cnn.com...

So... Trump followed the constitution, and followed law passed by congress. Whether or not people like it, good on him!

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

but Israel is not a secular nation. I cannot argue about the religious part as I am an atheist.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Have you ever lived under colonial rule? Well, I have, even if for a short while my parents and grandparents have. None of them want to live under colonial no matter how bad the situation is in their nation. The idea that the western world is more civilized when they are responsible for some of the greatest genocide of the native people on this planet is so ridiculous and ignorant I do not even know where to start. I know many Zimbabwean and no not one of them would go back to the Rhodesia era. It's not like they were well treated under that particular regime. The civilized world? In what sense is the western world more civilized than anyone else when you consider their bloody history. Just because you hate the black and brown people does not make us uncivilized.

You misunderstand the concept of civilization. To be willing to kill over something is to be civilized.

Those who have no principles and no ideals worth killing other are utterly incapable of building a civilization.

If you back down every time somebody threatens your life, you will always bow to tyrants. Because they will inevitably threaten your life to get what they want.

If you stand up to tyrants, but are unwilling to kill them, then they will inevitably kill you.

It is only when you are willing to kill them that you can know liberty.


Civilization is not about refraining from killing people. It's about demonstrating some degree of strategy about who you kill and why.

originally posted by: enkilo
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

but Israel is not a secular nation. I cannot argue about the religious part as I am an atheist.

You are wrong about this.

en.wikipedia.org...

Quite a lot of Israeli Jews are atheists or profess other religions. Believe in the traditional religion of Judaism is not a requirement for a person of Jewish heritage to claim the right to citizenship in Israel.

They are racists, not theocrats.

You misunderstand the concept of civilization. To be willing to kill over something is to be civilized.

Those who have no principles and no ideals worth killing other are utterly incapable of building a civilization.

If you back down every time somebody threatens your life, you will always bow to tyrants. Because they will inevitably threaten your life to get what they want.

If you stand up to tyrants but are unwilling to kill them, then they will inevitably kill you.

It is only when you are willing to kill them that you can know liberty.


Civilization is not about refraining from killing people. It's about demonstrating some degree of strategy about who you kill and why.

Well, if that what civilization is then I rather be uncivilized. By your definition, no one can claim that the Arab is uncivilized for trying to rid themselves of the Jewish state. They demonstrated some degree of strategy, to get back Palestine and to eliminate their more powerful neighbor. Not that any of the Arab states have actually attempted any attack against Israel in a long while, knowing very well they'll get their asses handed to them and risk losing the support of USA, who provide nation like Egypt with much taxpayers money. A sitution which the Us taxpayer should seriously asked themselves why?