It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Liberals please help me understand

page: 2
15
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Swills


Well, first you gotta ask yourself why exactly was Kapernick kneeling?


I understand why he kneels, but does the reason actually matter, or the right to it?

Kapernick or Tebow, they have the right. And should not be punished.




posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Tekaran
I put this in the mud pit because I know how things can get. Mods feel free to move as needed.

Here is my question.

This Kapernick kneeling thing. Supposedly for his beliefs/movement/whatever. For the most part, the media praises his actions. How is this different from Tebow kneeling in prayer for his beliefs, and was shunned and critized. Help me understand the difference. I know this is old news, but this has been eating away at me for a while.

I'll repect all opinions.
If you want to consider me a liberal that is your choice. As far as the two different displays of free speech, Tebow praying and Kap kneeling i support both their rights to do so so long as they do not break the rules of game play.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:06 PM
link   
I'm not a liberal, this is just a point of order:

Tebow didn't kneel in protest, he kneeled in support and thankfulness. He saved his displays for post-anthem.

EDIT: I'll also point out that neither Kapernick nor Tebow have enough talent to be worth the grief and drama they carry with them.
edit on 4-12-2017 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Teikiatsu

One could argue protest is a form of support for lesser causes.

That said, he has just as much a right to kneel as anyone. Reason doesn't really matter, the right to does.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:11 PM
link   
I've never been much of a football watcher.

Personally I don't care. Not sure why the national anthem is before such games anyhow...never made much sense to me.

Tebow kneeling as a little nod to his faith didn't interrupt the game, nor does a few folks taking a knee during the NA..they still throw, tackle, etc. religion, politics, etc...all that in a sports game, lame, but whatever, having the NA playing made it a political thing to begin with.



oh, and for a fun fact:

2015: Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake released a report revealing that the Department of Defense had spent $6.8 million between 2012 and 2015 on what the senators called "paid patriotism" events before professional sports games, including American flag displays, honoring of military members, reenlistment ceremonies, etc. The DoD justified the money paid to 50 professional sports teams by calling it part of their recruiting strategy.


Ultimately...who cares. If you don't like someone kneeling, sitting, etc....just look away from them. I would venture to say 98% of people watching the game at home never got off their couch to stand while the anthem played...and now 100% of the people "boycotting" the NFL are purposefully tuning out a playing of the national anthem by doing so...how disrespectful



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Teikiatsu

One could argue protest is a form of support for lesser causes.

That said, he has just as much a right to kneel as anyone. Reason doesn't really matter, the right to does.


One could, but one could also call Kapernick (and the other idiots like him) a putz who is ignorant of crime statistics and doesn't understand their audience nor that they are not winning many converts from the stands.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:15 PM
link   
I've never been a huge football fan anyways. Occasionally I would have a fantasy team. But maybe for me I would have been more open to accepting the kneeling for a cause it it would have been accepted to kneeling for your religion. But I also understand that Trump would have reacted much differently had the tables been turned. Honestly why would either cause, effect the viewers in any fashion anyways. Sorry for triggering a few...it was not my intention.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

You started with a false premise. Not all media shunned & criticized Tebow and not all media is praising Kaepernick (who isn't even in the league this year). In fact, the kneeling players this year have gotten shunned and criticized far worse than Tebow ever did, with the sitting president of the country going so far as to call them "sons of b_tches" that are unpatriotic and should be fired.

ETA: And don't forget the calls to boycott football if the current players kept kneeling, including calls by local and federal politicians like the sitting vice president.
edit on 4-12-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Teikiatsu

One could argue protest is a form of support for lesser causes.

That said, he has just as much a right to kneel as anyone. Reason doesn't really matter, the right to does.


One could, but one could also call Kapernick (and the other idiots like him) a putz who is ignorant of crime statistics and doesn't understand their audience nor that they are not winning many converts from the stands.



One could call him what one wishes, but in calling him a 'putz' one might not understand the larger issue in a broader context, the causes and reactions to which he's trying to bring awareness.

Then again, it's the right to, not the so much the reason, although the reason is just.
edit on 4-12-2017 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:22 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

Tebow is a hero in many people’s eyes. He gets preferential treatment because he’s so popular.

Even though he was a college success as a pro he’s a failure but still is very popular so much so the NY Mets put him in their baseball system, even though he can’t even play baseball that well.. He’s not mocked he’s very popular



edit on 4-12-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Tekaran

You started with a false premise. Not all media shunned & criticized Tebow and not all media is praising Kaepernick (who isn't even in the league this year). In fact, the kneeling players this year have gotten shunned and criticized far worse than Tebow ever did, with the sitting president of the country going so far as to call them "sons of b_tches" that are unpatriotic and should be fired.

ETA: And don't forget the calls to boycott football if the current players kept kneeling, including calls by local and federal politicians like the sitting vice president.


I see your point. Good post and something I was looking for. Made me think a little.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:29 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

You see some liberals are anti-religious and they might mock a religious guy like Tebow, but many of them might respect him. I am only a liberal on economic and rights issues and foreign policy, you’ll never hear me mock Tebow, except maybe as a football player.

I actually think Kap made a mistake doing what he did. He should have just protested outside of his job, imo.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:30 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran



For the record, I'm a lib & I was also a Tebow fan. I didn't care about his throwing mechanics; I just liked that he seemed to find ways to win in dramatic ways. But any criticism he received back then was child's play compared to the criticism we're seeing today. There are a lot of threads here on ATS about the current situation (many of which I've participated in), and I think they'll open your eyes to the vast difference in the levels of criticism. Here are some to get you started:

Trump-BOYCOTT NFL teams whose players refuse to stand for the National Anthem

Kneeling during the anthem is honoring what our founding fathers fought for

So kneeling is disrespectful but booing isn't?!

Taking a Knee?
edit on 4-12-2017 by enlightenedservant because: typo



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

Kapernick kneels for equal treatment for ALL humans.

Tebow = A certain group of people.
Kapernick = The whole world.


Thanks all...alot of legit views and opinions. I do think CK's reason is factually inaccurate though. As far as kneeling for the whole world, I'm not so sure it's only for who he is thinking is being discriminated against.
edit on 4-12-2017 by Tekaran because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

It’s not any different..with the exception of push back..

No one was demanding Tebow be fired.. he was jeered and snickered at at worst..


Plus, no one was twisting his prays into som slight on the military..

The Kapernick issue doesn’t have and never had ANYTHING to do with the military.. that was just a brilliant deflection TPTB used and the sheep fell for..



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

I don't remember a lot of people saying Tebow was wrong. There were certainly scoffers, as there are always scoffers to anyone mentioning their Christian beliefs. I also think it's quite different because Tebow did not kneel during the National Anthem.

Personally, I wouldn't engage in either act but support both men in their actions.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:35 PM
link   
What has Kap accomplished?

Imo, very little good.

Now he suing and begging for a job and has just elicited massive bitterness in the country—never a good thing.


In Buddhism there’s a concept called Skillful means.

Kap, imo, with all due respect to him, didn’t employ skillful means in his protests



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 08:49 PM
link   
a reply to: Tekaran

The reason it got so much push back is both political factions know they get a certain amount of heat by putting black in the title of a cause.. weather it is specific to black people or not..

Putting black in the title will instantly get 10% of the country to support you and 10% to hate your guts..sight unseen..

Imho this has led to some VERY, VERY lazy messaging..

Why start from zero publicity wise , when pushing the cause of “police shooting unarmed citizens, which effects everyone , but disproportionately effects minorities.”

When you can just say “cops are executing black males” and instantly get a ton of press from either political side??



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 09:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: queenofswords


The left is intolerant of anybody that doesn't march in lock step with their views.


Yeah. That’s true.
“Views” being the operative word there.

While the right are intolerant of people for who they are naturally.
Gays.
Black people.
Mexicans.
Refugees.
Trans.
The right are intolerant of them before they’ve even espoused a viewpoint.


That was fun.


You have fun displaying you have no clue what's going on?

Whatever floats your boat.



posted on Dec, 4 2017 @ 09:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Liquesence

Why did he kneel?

Yes, they both clearly have the right.



new topics

top topics



 
15
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join