Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: muzzleflash

So a soldier going to war and coming back with PTSD is just the soldier having poor education and coping skills?

PTSD actually means "Look I can't get over it".
It's not a disease or illness or anything like that.

Holy s#.

Just when I thought Muzzle couldn't possibly dig himself a deeper credibility hole on ATS than he already has with past threads, he goes "Challenge accepted, hold mah beer.".

I'm not an alcoholic. Which isn't a disease either, by the way.
Although I do agree it can be physically addictive, but that can be kicked if they can get through the withdrawal phase.

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

My credibility is fine.
You aren't the arbiter of deciding that by the way.
Who are you? Some guy on the internet? Impressive credentials there to judge my credibility.

a reply to: muzzleflash

It's perfect for Medical Conspiracies.

But your denying its even a medical condition, you are saying that mental illness is a myth, in your opinion.

which nicely brings me on to this.

It doesn't fit in Skunk Works at all.

Well in my view as a opinion piece it does.

You just disagree with the thread and want to hurt me the OP by attacking me via the mods.

If I were to do that then I would have alerted this to the mods which I have not.

GROW UP!

Coming for the guy who claims mental illness is a myth....hilarious .

a reply to: muzzleflash

I'm not an alcoholic. Which isn't a disease either, by the way.

......

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

Some pretty dumb views you have on alcohol addiction there.

OP I keep asking you this and you keep avoid it, and yes I know its a rather pointless question because you could just lie about it, but....;

What work experience and qualifications do you have that supports your conclusions?

a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

Apparently so.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin


What work experience and qualifications do you have that supports your conclusions?

Me personally has no bearing on the claims I made.
I am not the subject - my claims are.

All you've done is focus on ad hominem attacks and other fallacies, like this argument from authority fallacy.

Scientific knowledge is best established and taught by evidence and experiment rather than through authority[34][35][36] as authority has no place in science.[35][37][38]

Carl Sagan wrote of arguments from authority:

One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.[39]

And although I didn't resoundingly prove my case, I made an excellent initial argument to set the stage for a debate over those claims.

So, focus on the topic and stop attacking the messenger.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: muzzleflash

The brain is NOT a computer. It may function similarly to how computers function but that is no way NEAR an apt comparison.

Furthermore no two brains operate the same exact way or make the same connections. So saying that, minus any brain damage it would work fine is also incorrect. The brain works how the body's DNA dictates it should work. If the DNA creates a flawed brain then that brain will be flawed. The usually translates to mental illness.

It's like you understood exactly nothing about Carl Sagan's words. He'd probably slap you for trying to use his words to disprove the science of psychology.

You never even read his books.

Pathetic post from you - as usual.
I can't believe you'd just outright lie.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

According to one experts it is.

One person, the therapist, tries to influence another person, the patient, to change their values and behavior. While the conversation called therapy can be helpful, most of the conversation that occurs in therapy based on the disease model is potentially harmful.

This is because the therapist misleads the patient into believing something that is simply untrue--that addiction is a disease, and, therefore, addicts cannot control their behavior. Preaching this falsehood to patients may encourage them to abandon any attempt to take responsibility for their actions.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

a reply to: muzzleflash

So, focus on the topic and stop attacking the messenger.

I am not attacking the messenger I am attacking your absurd belief that mental illness is a myth.

I am only asking you what experience and qualifications you have because it might help to understand where their claim has came from.

For example I work as a nurse, I regularly attend training around mental illness and on any given day I will most likely be looking after someone who is mentally unwell. So form my experience and qualifications I can say confidently that your claims that mental illness is a myth must be wrong.

So it would be interesting then to know if you actually have any experience or qualifications regarding mental illness.

originally posted by: dashen
If nothing else I really enjoy this thread because of the Epic troll

Yall are the trolls for personally attacking the OP rather than having a healthy reasonable debate.

You know, in fact, I'd almost want to change my position just because of the attitudes of ATSers but I don't think being a complete self-centered butthole is in the DSM yet.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I made an excellent initial argument to set the stage for a debate over those claims.

You really didn’t.

You made a case on 40 year old, outdated science.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

you guys seriously need to read these books by Carl Sagan:

Unless Carl Sagan is the one who is telling you that mental illness is a myth then I think I will stick to reading your hilariously ignorant posts around mental illness.

I have asked you several questions you have not yet answered.

1. Do you quite literally mean that mental illness, all mental illness is a myth.

2. Do you honestly believe that only people who are uneducated are susceptible to mental illness.

3. What work experience and qualifications do you have that qualifies you to make these conclusions.

1. Read my OP finally please?

2. If you are educated on how to deal with your problems, it's incredibly unlikely you'll be susceptible to behaviors that others would readily identify with the mythological illness labels.

3. Again I'm not the subject. My claims are.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Yall are the trolls for personally attacking the OP rather than having a healthy reasonable debate.

Nobody is attacking your personally only attacking your belief that mental illness is a myth, I might disagree with that and call it a stupid, disgusting, ignorant view however that is not the same as me saying that you are a stupid individual.

don't take it so personally.

You know, in fact, I'd almost want to change my position just because of the attitudes of ATSers

or could it just be that you want to change your position because you realise that your wrong to claim mental illness is a myth.

I have massive respect for anyone who is willing to change their views after a debate or admit they were wrong.

that is how we learn after all.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

I made an excellent initial argument to set the stage for a debate over those claims.

You really didn’t.

You made a case on 40 year old, outdated science.

Yeah I did.

I actually have science AND math.

Because the 1960s were over 50 years ago.

Learn to count.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Dude you obviously have no experience or qualifications in working with or caring for individuals with mental illness.

Honestly I go back to what I said pages ago, this whole thread feels like you stubbled across a Youtube video and were just looking for something interesting to post.

Its backfired on you because there are a lot of people on ATS who work in healthcare or who themselves have mental illness and just know more about this than you do.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

Yall are the trolls for personally attacking the OP rather than having a healthy reasonable debate.

Nobody is attacking your personally only attacking your belief that mental illness is a myth, I might disagree with that and call it a stupid, disgusting, ignorant view however that is not the same as me saying that you are a stupid individual.

don't take it so personally.

You know, in fact, I'd almost want to change my position just because of the attitudes of ATSers

or could it just be that you want to change your position because you realise that your wrong to claim mental illness is a myth.

I have massive respect for anyone who is willing to change their views after a debate or admit they were wrong.

that is how we learn after all.

This is hardly a debate.

Yall talked a lot of crap, I spoke sense and handled the backlash by challenging the modern mythology.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

Dude you obviously have no experience or qualifications in working with or caring for individuals with mental illness.

Honestly I go back to what I said pages ago, this whole thread feels like you stubbled across a Youtube video and were just looking for something interesting to post.

Its backfired on you because there are a lot of people on ATS who work in healthcare or who themselves have mental illness and just know more about this than you do.

You're making a huge argument from authority there.

Fail.

a reply to: muzzleflash
I am not attacking original post rather I disagree with your premise to begin with.
I have personally seen people with debilitating mental problems help tremendously through drugs and proper mental health supervision and others suffer tremendously from the same problems that you pointed out in your original post. But to just give a blanket statement that mental disease does not exist obviously means that you have never taken the time to go to an actual mental health ward and see what you're talking about

a reply to: muzzleflash

Was that an ad hom?

That’s at least 2 I’ve counted from you, yet you say others are attacking you?

You do understand that things have changed A LOT in medicine in the last 50 years, right?

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: muzzleflash

It's a choice every time they have a drink. 100% a choice.

So now addiction is a choice?

According to one experts it is.

One person, the therapist, tries to influence another person, the patient, to change their values and behavior. While the conversation called therapy can be helpful, most of the conversation that occurs in therapy based on the disease model is potentially harmful.

This is because the therapist misleads the patient into believing something that is simply untrue--that addiction is a disease, and, therefore, addicts cannot control their behavior. Preaching this falsehood to patients may encourage them to abandon any attempt to take responsibility for their actions.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

I'm going to win this debate, just wait.
I actually do know what I'm talking about and I will come out on top.

Mental Illness is a Myth $$$

I'll be patient.