Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Just refute my claims.

Explain how a mind state even exists to begin with. This is philosophy 101.

You cannot properly quantify the mind. It is an abstract concept, not a real tangible thing.

Who cares about how the thread does? Just face the OP and explain why it's not valid.

It doesn't matter if the truth is dangerous in some hands. Guns and cars are dangerous in some hands too!

Are you saying that people should not know the truth because they can't handle it??

a reply to: muzzleflash

Interested in your opinion of this.
I have a tenant who is an older Indian man who's a Christian. He is convinced his upstairs and downstairs neighbors are witches and satanists. He combats them by Smashing brooms and other things into his ceiling and floor to distract their Satanic rituals. He also plays Christian music at the highest volume day and night to protect him from their witchcraft and other dark practices.
His neighbors just wonder why he won't let them sleep day or night.
Is this old man misunderstood or in need of psychological help?

I agreed early in my OP that there exists physical quantifiable objective medical issues, but that "mental illness" is a misdiagnosis and steeped in mythology and perpetuating prejudices and stereotyping.

You are getting too hung up on the words. If you acknowledge that imbalances can occur either physically or chemically within a brain, who cares what they label it. It won't change the fact that there are people who act in certain ways because of particular issues with their brains. Sometimes certain medications can fix this. Sometimes not. People will still try to make money off these issues regardless.

The fact you have decided that ADHD for example, is "fake," pretty much nulls your opinion to me. You simply won't accept certain things you haven't experienced yourself imo.

a reply to: muzzleflash

that's why you see him responding only to his ATS friends, who praise him for being "brave" for standing out to fascist ATS.

No what I am saying is that if someone is going through some psychosis and comes across your thread they might just say "ahhh I was right metal illness is a myth, those meds, nah I don't need them".

Now to be fair your not the only one the internet is full of crap like this.

Mental illness exists, it is a fact.

Claiming it is a myth is only your misinformed opinion, not a fact.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't think you know what an ad hominem attack is. The last few threads you have authored have prompted people to ask if you are OK. It is within the scope of your post, a post you completely made up. You are NOT the messenger, you are the AUTHOR. You admit to having had to go through rigorous panels to test if you have mental disorders (which just so happens to play into your "I am special" bit from the Alien Abduction thread) but no, why in the world would you be lashing out at "so called mental health issues".

We don't have to refute your claims. You are making the wild claims, you have to support them with scientific data. What you need to do is refute some papers on, for example, Schizophrenia. Take those papers, and "eviscerate" them.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't think you know what an ad hominem attack is. The last few threads you have authored have prompted people to ask if you are OK. It is within the scope of your post, a post you completely made up. You are NOT the messenger, you are the AUTHOR. You admit to having had to go through rigorous panels to test if you have mental disorders (which just so happens to play into your "I am special" bit from the Alien Abduction thread) but no, why in the world would you be lashing out at "so called mental health issues".

We don't have to refute your claims. You are making the wild claims, you have to support them with scientific data. What you need to do is refute some papers on, for example, Schizophrenia. Take those papers, and "eviscerate" them.

Every time we mention a poster on ATS personally and attack them it is ad hominem and avoids discussing the actual topic.

What papers on Schizophrenia prove it exists? I don't know of any. Probably because it's impossible to prove a pure abstraction is a real tangible thing, which would explain the absence of such a paper.

I am however open to the possibility that such a paper might exist, but I just have never seen such a thing nor do I see how it's existence could be possible, but if you know of one than please share it and also explain why it proves schizophrenia is a real tangible actual illness.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I have had 3 exams by professionals, including two panals of a dozen qualified experts each from MTMHI and Vanderbilt (in the last 2.5 years), composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, etc. So called "experts"

Why do you need to bring this up every time you tell us a story?

Oh, you forgot to show us proof of your latest drug screening.
🙄

a reply to: muzzleflash

What papers on Schizophrenia prove it exists?

Seriously!

There is literally an entire Journal called "Psychosis"

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: muzzleflash

Interested in your opinion of this.
I have a tenant who is an older Indian man who's a Christian. He is convinced his upstairs and downstairs neighbors are witches and satanists. He combats them by Smashing brooms and other things into his ceiling and floor to distract their Satanic rituals. He also plays Christian music at the highest volume day and night to protect him from their witchcraft and other dark practices.
His neighbors just wonder why he won't let them sleep day or night.
Is this old man misunderstood or in need of psychological help?

Neither.

That individual is clearly misinformed and under the wrong assumption.

He is thinking clearly and correctly - it is just the information he considers true is false in reality. Let's assume he was somehow right though and they were in fact witches and satanists - than we could all agree that he is making the right choices by attempting to disrupt their evil satanism and protecting himself from that magical evil.

That's why I said that accurate vs inaccurate information is so important.
He is not mentally ill. He is just plain wrong and believes in fiction.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

What papers on Schizophrenia prove it exists?

Seriously!

There is literally an entire Journal called "Psychosis"

So you aren't going to link a paper that proves the claim that schizophrenia is a real tangible thing?

I didn't think you could do it.
If all you're going to post is fluff and bluster and bluffs than fine.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I have had 3 exams by professionals, including two panals of a dozen qualified experts each from MTMHI and Vanderbilt (in the last 2.5 years), composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, etc. So called "experts"

Did they diagnose you with a condition that you do not recognise, come to that has any medical professional every diagnosed you with a illness that you do not recognise as existing and as such do not believe you have?

Or.

Has a doctor ever suggested that you take medication for any condition that you have not taken. if so what was the medication?

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: muzzleflash

I have had 3 exams by professionals, including two panals of a dozen qualified experts each from MTMHI and Vanderbilt (in the last 2.5 years), composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, etc. So called "experts"

Why do you need to bring this up every time you tell us a story?

Oh, you forgot to show us proof of your latest drug screening.
🙄

I did show my latest drug screening, lol.

I think everyone else should have to show theirs now.
And their mental health records need to be out in the open.

That way, since it's so important to everyone as they are relentlessly attacking me personally (and have been) with ad hominems for months - we will base "credibility" on these factors.

Once it's shown that most of you are diagnosed or are on mind-altering substances, which disqualifies you from having a valid opinion, than me and like 3 other people will be the only ones with viable posts on any subject matter.

In fact that's a great thread idea - "Everyone post their medical history and drug screens here to verify their credibility!".
I love it.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

I have had 3 exams by professionals, including two panals of a dozen qualified experts each from MTMHI and Vanderbilt (in the last 2.5 years), composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, etc. So called "experts"

Did they diagnose you with a condition that you do not recognise, come to that has any medical professional every diagnosed you with a illness that you do not recognise as existing and as such do not believe you have?

Or.

Has a doctor ever suggested that you take medication for any condition that you have not taken. if so what was the medication?

No. Nothing.

What about you?

a reply to: muzzleflash

Nope never.

Just seems odd to me that you have went through such rigorous psychological assessment and there is nothing wrong with you.

At the very least at some point someone must have called into question your mental health.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: muzzleflash

Nope never.

Just seems odd to me that you have went through such rigours psychological assessment and there is nothing wrong with you.

At the very least at some point someone must have called into question your mental health.

I'm calling into question your mental health.

I bet you have tons of diagnosis judging by your posts here.

--- You do realize that you are proving (along with my sarcastic response here) my claim in the OP about stereotyping and stigmatizing and the resulting attitudes accusations of 'mental illness' lead to right?

I mean, if you are diagnosed with even 1 mental illness, why would I listen to anything you say? It's automatically just the ravings of a madman. Only us non-diagnosed healthy individuals are capable of making comments of a mentally healthy reasonable nature after all.

Do you get it now? My OP? About how I said claims of 'mental illness' are mere opinions and based on prejudices and used to stifle dissenting or uncommon views?

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: muzzleflash

Interested in your opinion of this.
I have a tenant who is an older Indian man who's a Christian. He is convinced his upstairs and downstairs neighbors are witches and satanists. He combats them by Smashing brooms and other things into his ceiling and floor to distract their Satanic rituals. He also plays Christian music at the highest volume day and night to protect him from their witchcraft and other dark practices.
His neighbors just wonder why he won't let them sleep day or night.
Is this old man misunderstood or in need of psychological help?

. He is just plain wrong and believes in fiction.

Interesting.
Very interesting.
How would you know if you were plain wrong and just believing in fiction?

a reply to: muzzleflash

I'm calling into question your mental health.

I bet you have tons of diagnosis judging by your posts here.

Nope I have been quite lucky so far and I have never been diagnosed with anything more serious than a touch of flu.

ohhh and a few broken bones but that just about sums up my medical history.

if you are diagnosed with even 1 mental illness, why would I listen to anything you say? It's automatically just the ravings of a madman.

Quite a lot of members on this thread have came forward to say they are living with a mental illness, I would not describe any of them as raving madmen or dismiss what they have to say just because they have a diagnosed mental illness.

bout how I said claims of 'mental illness' are mere opinions and based on prejudices and used to stifle dissenting or uncommon views?

This is the problem.

Its all very well and good saying that the term mental illness might not be suitable because of its negative connotations but it does not mean that schizophrenia is a myth. You are trying to argue that the entire volume of knowledge regarding modern psychiatry is a myth all because you watched a youtube video and read a couple of wiki pages.

I get that you might not like the labels, thats fine, but its just a personal opinion its not a fact.

You might not like that modern medicine labels people as having "bipolar" because of the prejudices that creates and again, thats fine, however it does not mean that the illness of being bipolar is a myth.

originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: muzzleflash

Interested in your opinion of this.
I have a tenant who is an older Indian man who's a Christian. He is convinced his upstairs and downstairs neighbors are witches and satanists. He combats them by Smashing brooms and other things into his ceiling and floor to distract their Satanic rituals. He also plays Christian music at the highest volume day and night to protect him from their witchcraft and other dark practices.
His neighbors just wonder why he won't let them sleep day or night.
Is this old man misunderstood or in need of psychological help?

. He is just plain wrong and believes in fiction.

Interesting.
Very interesting.
How would you know if you were plain wrong and just believing in fiction?

The best way to find out if what you believe in is fiction or not is to question it and contemplate those questions. Anytime you are even partially unsure about an answer looking up things and reading information from others is a good way to get a feel for what others think the answer might be.

The reason that the individual in your example will struggle is because if they dare question Jesus they will go to hell. So therefore they may never escape the fact they are wrong.

Alternatively those neightbors will have to go speak to them directly and continually reassure them that they believe Jesus is Lord and Savior and died on the cross bla bla bla - then theoretically over time they'll decide "well they are now repenting and saved so I can stop combating them".

The Jesus thing is probably one of the most difficult mental challenges to deal with because their very soul and eternity is at stake so they have to devote themselves 100% + to never ever doubting it or questioning it.

That isn't a mental illness however, it's an information error that results in a feedback loop of circular logic. Although I can't say with absolute certainty, I'm under the impression that they believe in a fiction to a great extent. There might actually be a few pieces of reality to it but it is subtle and not exactly what they are thinking it is. That's a whole different topic though...

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I formulated this topic over many years of experience and questioning various claims or beliefs. I just grabbed that video and those wikis offhand with a 15minute search because I felt it'd be nice to add a little bit of "someone else" to my claims so it wasn't just me alone by myself.

I'm sure there's plenty more out there if we went looking for it.

I didn't claim that "because the term mental illness isn't suitable - therefore schizophrenia is a myth".
My claim was "Schizophrenia does not exist at all beyond it's indefinite abstraction as an ambiguous label, therefore it is a myth".

I did make various other claims and am only articulating that one in more detail, to be fair.