Mental Illness is a MYTH : Witchcraft and Power Politics in Medicine

a reply to: Noinden

"Labels are not the problem."

Aye but they are handy on the medication bottles.

On a more serious note, labels are indeed a problem, and can lead to all manner of false assumptions and misunderstandings.

That being said its kind of what humanity does, that being label and prejudge others based on sketchy preconceived notions.

We simply cannot help ourselves in that area.

a reply to: andy06shake

Like I said they are not the problem The assumptions again are the lack of information people have. Lets take a non mental health label as an example.

One I have mentioned here.

I'm a Scientist (a Pharmaceutical chemist if we wish to be exact.). BUT the image which is conjured would be some lab coat wearing academic? I know I've been accused of being an athiest (not even close ) here in a certain other forum. The image conjured up, is very likely to be wrong, but people are indoctrinated into an image of what a "scientist is". Just like what (say)depression is (in media, be it news, or be it some drama). The label again is not the problem, it is how people see the thing being talked about. Again it returns to the media, and others who are pushing an image.

Scientists are "emotionless and aspiritual"
Depressed people are unstable and often just can't get up in the morning.

Labels have a use. They can be misused. Just like a medication (after all you opened that comparison ).

I will tie this back to the OP, apparently having issues with mental health professionals, despite having admitted to a condition. One which is hard to get under control (but not impossible, indeed I've worked with a schizophrenic coworker, who never once exhibited issues, when they were around us).

a reply to: Noinden

Well thought out post. I agree with you Noinden.

If i can clarify, as you mentioned, its not the labels that are the problem (mostly, although certain words like schizophrenia cause an immediate negative emotional response in some) it really does come down to the paradigm.

My question is, can we break the negative preconceived notions revolving around certain labels, or should we rename these conditions?

A prime example is sociopathy and psychopathy.

If a person is diagnosed as psychopathic, they would generally be looked at negatively.

Ironically, psychopathy and sociopathy (characterized by an extreme lack of empathy and remorse for harming others in any regard) not only was renamed to a less damning label "antisocial personality disorder", but is also one of the most under diagnosed disorders...and quite possibly one of the most negatively impactful, if not the most.

Why have we not relabeled those with delusional thoughts and or hallucinations (as if we even understand their causations)? Interesting, to say the least.

a reply to: Noinden

I don't know about scientists being perceived as emotionless or aspiritual, else how would they ever create or manage to realize their dreams?

I dont know what "aspiritual" means to be honest.

The rest i tend to agree with but have to say that without labels and/or the application of such to our environment and people around us we would have rather a hard time trying to convey simple meaning towards one another.

a reply to: RAY1990

John Nash would probably disagree that mental illness doesn't exist. A brilliant if not genius level intellect who suffered from acute schizophrenia.

So this premise that intelligent people don't suffer is a ridiculous notion

a reply to: CreationBro

So if we are going to be honest, where did most people first find out about people with Sociopathy or Psycopathy (both personality disorders). Most likely on the television be it the news, or possibly a crime show like CSI, NCIS, or hell Dexter. Because of this, most people assume that you will get murdered by these "possible serial killers". Yet a great many business people, and politicians would tick a lot of the boxes in either (or both) of those conditions.

What mental health professionals have discovered is that these conditions tend to be on a spectrum. So autsism has one, and so do personality disorders. Just as people are on a spectrum with their sexuality. Any rational adult gets that things are a shade of colour, not black and white. Sadly mental health is only just beginning to be acknowledged this way.

Lets look at what is probably the few"positive" representation of someone on the autism spectrum in media today. Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory (a show I hate, because of how it portrays scientists, even if it is just physicists ) . He is clearly somewhere in the spectrum, yet as a character he is shown great respect. In some ways Dexter tried to do that of Psycopaths, except well a murderer is a murderer is a murder. You can't condone it, even if it was "just" (same goes for the Punisher in his latest representation being most likely a PTSD example, he still is a killer).

Relabeling of mental health conditions, as "just another treatable thing" does not really benifit media, or politicians. Media need villians, politicians need scapegoats. The USA (and I am married to someone from there, and lived there for a number of years) does NOT respect scientists, and medical professionals. We get rolled out to sell things, and talk about things, but ridiculed when it is convenient. Hence you don't get real mental health professionals consulted, but Dr fecking Phil, with say Harvey Weinsteins behavior.

you take me off my bi polar meds and you will see a huge diffrence from me tolerating idiots to murdering them out of blind rage that i cant control but my pills do controll the rage and mood swings that come with bi polar

originally posted by: SailorJerry
a reply to: RAY1990

John Nash would probably disagree that mental illness doesn't exist. A brilliant if not genius level intellect who suffered from acute schizophrenia.

So this premise that intelligent people don't suffer is a ridiculous notion

Indeed.

One of Einstein's sons was diagnosed with schizophrenia

It was one of Albert's greatest sadnesses.

Ironically, Albert himself displayed some interesting symptoms, potentially indicating he himself may have had elements of bipolar/schizophrenia.

a reply to: andy06shake

The media tends to portray us as people out of touch with our emotions. If we have emotions it is our research.

Aspiritual (with out a spiritual side) is a polite way of saying atheist. Which would not describe me, I'm a deeply religious Pagan (yep I beleive in Magic, and many gods).

But people seem to think we all wear a spotless white labcoat, and are deeply interested in boring science.

The media loves us being "nerds and geeks" (sort of guilty as a geek I guess, only because I do love comics, but also like to do martial arts, and power lifted in college, and yeah worked as a bouncer to pay the bills).

People have images, so with mental health it is almost always a negative position portreyed. New Zealand (where I am from) had a campaign the last decade, using a sports hero of ours (John Kirwin, one of our greatest Rugby players) talking about how he lived with depression, and how to deal with it. As such Depression at least has been destigmitized a little.

a reply to: CreationBro

There is a little evidence that highly intelligent people are more likely to suffer mental health, perhaps due to some of the mutations, in their genome, that make them more intelligent. Further sign that it is evolution, not some God that caused us to be us

a reply to: Noinden

I enjoyed reading your reply, very insightful.

Believe it or not, some of us Americans hold a candle to science. How could you not?

a reply to: CreationBro

Of course you can. Though there are some good studies and books out there about it. I like "Dumbing down Amearica". Also did you know that until the late 19th century, Doctors did all go medical school, and many of the schools did not apply scientific method to medicine? The old Heroic medicine (bleedings, poultices, and purging) was the basis. It began to change, but not totally. The Spanish influenza epidemic made sure that this was abolished, because scientific method worked, while bleeding someone killed them more often than not. Though I know of one condition where bleeding helps

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a reply to: Noinden

"nerds and geeks" are the new cool.

Have you met weans these days? it's not like it was before.

Most of them possess skills that they do not even realize they employ.

Not saying i dont get where you are coming from but the world went and god darn changed and none told us grownups.

Apparently its a generation thing, but in a lot of situations smart is the new cool.

a reply to: Noinden

(they cause imbalances in the brain chemistry)

hahaha - still pushing the chemical imbalance lie - sorry I meant "nuance"; quantitative empirical science it is not.

www.psychiatrictimes.com...

However, if you had actually investigated the APA’s 2005 statement, you would have chosen answer 4. Here is the complete passage from the APA’s “Healthy Minds” Web site, intended for the general public: The exact causes of mental disorders are unknown, but an explosive growth of research has brought us closer to the answers.

We can say that certain inherited dispositions interact with triggering environmental factors. Poverty and stress are well-known to be bad for your health—this is true for mental health and physical health. In fact, the distinction between “mental” illness and “physical” illness can be misleading. Like physical illnesses, mental disorders can have a biological nature. Many physical illnesses can also have a strong emotional component [italics added].2

It’s also true, as critics of the chemical imbalance hypothesis point out, that the term “imbalance” is misleading. To validate an imbalance, we must first have a quantitative understanding of the optimal neurochemical balance in the brain—and, given the scores of neurotransmitters now identified, this balance has yet to be ascertained

a reply to: Noinden

You know who else don't like the idea of mental health problems being real? Scientologists. Scientology hates psychiatry

That's a very scientific answer coming from you. Equating it to Scientology - a known organization that has been involved in threatening the FBI and also involved in kidnapping and other cult like behaviour.

You just lost all credibility after you spent time trying to throw your background around.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Very well said - people gloss over the power that psychiatry has gained in silencing political dissidents.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Do you want to be in an elevator that lost power for 8 hours with 10 people that just came off all there meds 3 days ago cold turkey because you say they don't need them, because mental illness doesn't exist ?

This sort of post is disgusting. This sounds like the rantings of an uneducated or ignorant or misinformed person. I have heard this stuff before. I have seen people not take care of their issue's because of rants like this. It almost has a Christian scientists feel to it.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Noinden

You know who else don't like the idea of mental health problems being real? Scientologists. Scientology hates psychiatry

That's a very scientific answer coming from you. Equating it to Scientology - a known organization that has been involved in threatening the FBI and also involved in kidnapping and other cult like behaviour.

You just lost all credibility after you spent time trying to throw your background around.

You forget that mental disability and severe schizophrenia was documented WAY WAY before big pharma had a hand in it

Thats what always confounds me, i get people want another explanation and sometimes even a patsy , but this is nothing new.


As far as I am concerned, I now work as a consultant to Assisted living centeres, dealing primarily with Alzheimers and other "disorders" that come with old age.

You cant tell me for a second that mental issues dont exist, when I watch people who go from productive members of society , to 15yr old kids in a matter of years.

Its the same affliction, its a brain disorder, its not shameful, its biological, its physical , its psychological.

The connection between the two is only in the pathways of the brain we havent connected yet.

The correlation between a schizophrenic who sees and hears things thats not there and the Alzheimer patient who sees people who are not there (in others or his time frame) are not far off.

So stop with the nonsense. You arent helping or aiding anyone, youre bringing denial to something that is very real and has close ties , and very many many attributes to something much more common .........

Mark my words, schizophrenia and Alzheimers, SOMEWHERE carry a common thread.