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Why are and should communism and capitalism inherently be at war????

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posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 04:56 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

I was not giving you definitions, I was giving you examples of the fluidity between a free market capitalist system and a communist system on the other. The answer to the question: who owns you, as a means of production i.e. capital, is essential and at the heart of the matter.

The answer is right there ......
They are opposing views of social order. And there is another trait that is needed for communism to survive: totalitarian form of government making a successful implementation that much more difficult. On the other hand, for the Amazonian indian society where hardly is present any form of private property, except for the minimum division of you and me, where the concept of "my wife"does not even exist, or my father, cause all men are then your father, it is a small community, with many communists traits and capitalism would be upsetting to the peace and tranquility of that society.

On a bigger scale, communism cannot, as long as people are not enlightened of their own free will, survive, but needs the protection, force and violence of a totalitarian state.

That said: I would not at all be surprised if more experiments will be done with a universal income, and try to hybridize, so no full communist paradise, but a society with choice, capitalism and free enterprise and traits with common ownership by the state.




posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: Yvhmer

I don’t see the need for either a totalitarian state to enforce it.. at least not more of a totalitarian state than we have..

If you don’t pay your taxes, a fine, smoke pot in the privacy of your own home, exc the US government will throw you in a concrete box FOR YEARS..

If you are preaching revolution, the US government will throw you in a concrete box for years..


But that said that had nothing to do with the way other nations view you..

If trump and Putin get along great, are communism and capitalism still inherently at war???

Seems to me that is decided by whoever you put in charge..

A king author running a communist country could be a utopia..at least until the genetic lottery of genetic succession crapped out..

We all saw what happened when a capitalist democracy handed the keys to a hitler..



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

You are posing some interesting arguments. Allow me to address them one at the time:



We all saw what happened when a capitalist democracy handed the keys to a hitler..


It can be looked at from several directions. First of all, when those so called keys were handed to that man, Germany back then was far removed from being a free market capitalist democratic society.
Another view could be that National Socialism (lets focus on the economical side not on the race side) is, as I previously argued, another iteration in terms of answer to the question how to square personal ownership vs state ownership. Communism, International Socialism, National Socialism, Fascism and everything in between, are all but variation on the same theme.

Whether you like it or not, people, given a choice and opportunity, flock, depending on their inclination and interest to one extreme (anarchic capitalist or another totalitarian communism) and everything in between. Fact remains, in order to elevate the proletariat, violent revolution and a totalitarian state is needed to execute a transition period. That is not me saying it, you can read it from communist founders themselves.




I don’t see the need for either a totalitarian state to enforce it.. at least not more of a totalitarian state than we have..


As I said, it depends on the state of enlightenment of every single person in a geographical area. But then again, there would be no need for government at all. On that, the fact you are sating you are having a hard time seeing .... is no argument for or against, only that it says something about your powers of observation and perception.

However, the way in which, for instance, the police acted towards their own citizens in DDR, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Mozambique, Malawi, and other hell holes of them days, is somewhat of a magnitude more severe than what we can observe now. And true, the technical infrastructure in place to achieve 24/7 360 degrees overall surveillance, are in place. In most liberal democracies, those powers are still balanced with human and citizen rights which were practically non existent in the previously mentioned countries. And yes, it is a worrying development, as our civil liberties erode before our very eyes.



If you don’t pay your taxes, a fine, smoke pot in the privacy of your own home, exc the US government will throw you in a concrete box FOR YEARS..


The current state of affairs in the US is hardly indicative of a free market capitalist democratic republic. There once was a time when there was no income tax, no war on drugs .... when free market capitalism was more valued .... however ... you are saying something to say what exactly?
That punishing criminal activity is totalitarian? Hardly, but I have to hand it to the US for being Numero UNO in putting people behind bars ....and #ing over it's own population. Hail the war on cash, drugs, poverty, human rights. Things have gotten so well organized that de facto every American is a criminal everyday.




If you are preaching revolution, the US government will throw you in a concrete box for years..


Hardly true. Listen to Obama's 2008 inaugural speech. He was preaching revolution, all right, and using any notion an American could have about the original 1776 revolution against the British Crown and connect it to different issues and giving it another content. I can see how his ass landed in jail. NOT.

But then again, Obama, preached revolutionary ideas conducive with a gradual change towards a more socialistic and communistic ideal. Again, just one iteration on the scale.

However, preaching revolution to overthrow violently the current status quo ... it is in the interest of any current status quo to not have a violent revolution on it's hands.


If trump and Putin get along great, are communism and capitalism still inherently at war???


Perhaps you should read something about what Putin actually stands for. What his ideas on political philosophy actually are.
You see, a fool can pose a lot more questions than a wise man can answer. And I feel that your question starts to belong to this category. First, you fail to recognize adequately what exactly you are talking about, what defines both political philosophies. And second, why do you seem to be implying that Putin and Trump represent a struggle between communism and free market capitalism?



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 06:32 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dfnj2015
I’m not trying to have this be a debate on the benefits/negatives of each system..

That is an old hat..

I am asking why the political classes swear up and down that capitalism and communism cannot coexist.



There's a lots of us (individuals) spread throughout the world all just trying to have it better than the next guy.
It doesn't matter the economic system/ideology. We inherently put ourselves up on pedestals rather than try to wear shoes on both feet- sort of speak.

Personally I think it's an evolutionary trait we have to outgrow.



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