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This is why I hate socialists

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posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.




posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
I love threads like this.

The way people conflate liberalism, Marxism, socialism and communism is hilarious.

No wonder you folk are permanently angry....you don't know what you hate.



Any asstard who thinks they are entitled to what I've earned.





posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

That is not, in any shape or form, what he said. You might want to re-read that sentence, again.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Civil war is what the far right wants. Destroying the middle class is one way to get it. When those rural dwellers that put trump and republicans in power figure it out, they’ll be living in the cities with other welfare recipients.


I'm not sure they want to literally do away with the middle class, I mean we are the teachers, nurses, car dealers, and yes, even doctors and lawyers are middle class, so I'm not sure it's literally intention. But they can't control their greed apparently. They continue to starve for power and money. Something is seriously wrong with those people! lol.

Oh heck, maybe they do just want two classes. Them, and their slaves. But I can't (in reality) bring myself to believe that.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:21 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
I love threads like this.

The way people conflate liberalism, Marxism, socialism and communism is hilarious.

No wonder you folk are permanently angry....you don't know what you hate.



Ask ten people if they are for or against Communism.

Then, ask those same ten people to "define," Communism.

For instance, anarchy translates to "no coercive hierarchy," or "without rulers."

Many, many, many people I know think the term "anarchist," means no laws, rules, morals, ethics - they believe it means outright chaos.

Most Americans can't name the East Coast, lol.

It's how "they," keep people perpetually angered.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting


Lady, I can't speak for anyone else but my answer to that question would be socialist dictators - not the people under it. The people usually have little choice, as the consequences for opposing the ruler can be quite harsh.

Of course we already have a degree of socialism in the United States. From Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security to shared risk insurance rates. So I tend to agree that not all socialism is necessarily evil, rather that the specific people in charge of moderating or otherwise policing a socialist construct will turn to corruption and personal greed at the expense of others.

It is of course human nature to be greedy and look out for yourself first, but socialist dictators and profiteers always take it a step further. There has yet to be a socialist (or communist) society that hasn't committed mass attrocities against people living under it or general crimes against humanity.

I also agree that it is largely irrelevent in the United States, because it is clear we will never have a socialist system in the US. That isn't to say that I disagree with some tennets of socialism, such as the programs I alluded to earlier. It is just that such programs should be taken out of the purview of the federal government, and into private organizations where it belongs. This ensures liberty by giving citizens the right to opt-out and control their own finances (and therefore their own destiny).

edit on 12/2/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Hello Mr. Burns. I agree entirely. To completely denounce it is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And we certainly don't have to be "either/or". It's what Americans do. Take what suits us, and leave the rest.

Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security have worked for us. I would like to see those become more inclusive, and that would probably get me off my soap box. For the most part. A few more things, maybe, but not here on this thread.

I appreciate your thoughts, thank you. Most sensible response I've had all day.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Exactly, this


The problem is threefold (maybe more-fold):

1) It is predicated around the idea that achievement and hard work shouldn't be rewarded through any measurable personal gains and that all people are somehow deserving of the exact same things in life;

2) It operates under the assumption that it is OK to take from Peter to pay Paul;

3) The overarching concept of socialism is based on strong handed enforcement from the god-entity known as Government

Clearly there are exceptions for certain societies, China namely. I just believe people a whole would have to drastically change their perspectives for it to work out the way they intend.
edit on 12/2/2017 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yes you hit that nsil precisely on the head and so did the OP. I'm glad some others are stepping up to the plate here. I get tired of being called stuff for calling out the Marxists and the socialists.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:35 PM
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How does not collecting taxes rob anyone?

OP is correct, commies are crazy.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

At the very end of those 8 years, but then, we didn't suffer on that end much. Husband's industry was not impacted directly by it, but was very much impacted by the higher taxes of the Obama regime along with the vastly increased regulatory state which made it harder to do business not just for the company itself but across all sectors.

The area my husband works in for example? Dealt directly with regulatory (QC). It expanded it's head count faster than most other areas of the company even with the slowdown.

But between the rising taxes and increased regulatory burden, our success has slowed down considerably over the past 8 years.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.


Uh... Billionaire Bruce is a Republican?



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.


Uh... Billionaire Bruce is a Republican?


Lol, sure he is.

Illinois is and has always been run by democrats.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.


Uh... Billionaire Bruce is a Republican?


Lol, sure he is.

Illinois is and has always been run by democrats.


That's some sound logic.

Rauhner, the only governor invited to CFR meetings - who is a Republican - is somehow a Democrat.

Man.... you guys and your partisan blinders.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.


Uh... Billionaire Bruce is a Republican?


To be fair, he's been governor for what, two years?

It's not like Illinois' problems suddenly cropped up since he took office.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: underwerks
Anyone here ever had your taxes go down?

Asking for a friend.



No, but my taxes in Illinois just went up.

Because they were short some dough. So they hiked up our taxes.

And in two more years, they'll say "we spent too much!," and my taxes will go up - again.

And I live a good two hours from Cook County.


The democrats ruined that state, glad I got out when I did.


Uh... Billionaire Bruce is a Republican?


Lol, sure he is.

Illinois is and has always been run by democrats.


That's some sound logic.

Rauhner, the only governor invited to CFR meetings - who is a Republican - is somehow a Democrat.

Man.... you guys and your partisan blinders.



He can call himself whatever he likes but his actions scream democrat.

Let's see if the republicans vote for him in 18



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting


Thank you ladyinwaiting
It has been a long time since we last spoke in the scholar's forum and it is nice to discuss a topic with you again!

It certainly does not have to be either/or, and the programs we spoke of have been really successful. I have been pretty lucky in my life, but a lot of our friends are totally reliant on Medicare for healthcare needs. I have heard some single payer proposals involving universal Medicare that also sound promising.

I know I may get flamed, but I was a Bernie voter in the primary and went with Trump in the general. I don't feel that my decision to cross party lines puts me at a disadvantage, though. If anything, it has given me insight and perspective from two groups with very valid points of view. I would describe myself as either a classical liberal, libertarian, moderate conservative or some amalgamation of the above


Of course as far as ideology goes, I have actually spoken with a lot of Bernie people (self described Democratic Socialists) that had some pretty great ideas. The real problem is when you get into implementation, and how you rely on checks and balances to prevent another 1% from assuming wealth and power. If only we had some super-ethical and sentient machines


In any case, I may be the minority voice here but I have nothing against those who applaud or practice socialism. My issues are entirely with the dictators and others who abuse the trust of a population to enrich themselves. Much like our system (and others) the people are usually fairly powerless (on an individual level) to really keep any large governing body under control and honest. Consequently this is why I frequently advocate for smaller and less powerful government, and decentralized authority (such as to the states, or the people respectively).

Great having another discussion with you though



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

See? When you say "more inclusive" about things like Medicare/Medicaid/SS, I hear that you want more people to be compelled to take part in them and for those programs to swallow up more things they "must" provide. And in turn, you will be compelled to give more of your money to them.

The problem is being compelled.

What if I don't want to be compelled into those programs? What if I think they are grossly mismanaged and going bankrupt?

What if I think I would do better to have personal control over the funds I am currently forced to set aside for Social Security instead of blindly trusting the government to manage them for me? We are talking about a group of people who have run up $19T in debt, but they're wisely managing my forced retirement contributions ... Riiiight.

Now, if you want to choose to trust them, I'm all for you opting in for that, but I don't want to be forcibly opted in right along with you, but socialism does that for me. And there is no option for me to have recourse should I be right and they *are* basically stealing you and I both blind and when we need those funds ... they're gone and we're up a creak.



posted on Dec, 2 2017 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

More Inclusive


Yep. That's what I said. Sorry if you don't like it, I didn't figure you would. Not to worry, though. I don't think the country is going to become socialist. Any time soon. I guess capitalism will poop out on us at some point in time, but then we'll figure something else out. I always thought it would happen decades from now, long after I'm gone, but now I'm not sure.

Nobody's out to get your money, Ket, and supposedly you've got a "big beautiful tax cut coming for Christmas", so you should be fine.

eta: btw, I wasn't in favor of ANY tax cuts. Anybody who thinks we can generate enough revenue to run this highly complicated and expensive country without taxing it's citizens has lost their freaking minds.

If anything, taxes need go UP. All these weather disasters, the flooding in Texas, and all the vicious hurricanes we've had, all that has to paid for.
And the consequences of those disasters due to climate change I mean, Mother Nature's vengeance, is going to start being a regular expenditure. Where's that money coming from?
edit on 12/2/2017 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



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