Senate passes tax reform bill

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: TheRedneck

A few pages back he claimed he studied something to do with finance in college. I'd love to know at which college so I can tell anyone interested in finance where not to go to school. He doesn't even have the basics down.

I said no such thing. I've taken the usual economics courses that are part of gen ed's but that's all. My education has to do with software engineering.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: TheRedneck

A few pages back he claimed he studied something to do with finance in college. I'd love to know at which college so I can tell anyone interested in finance where not to go to school. He doesn't even have the basics down.

I said no such thing. I've taken the usual economics courses that are part of gen ed's but that's all. My education has to do with software engineering.

So when you took those gen ed courses, you weren't studying something that had something to do with finance, in college (or university)?

Reading comprehension may be a big part of your problem, in addition to little to no knowledge of the subject matter being discussed here.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Yes it is. That's exactly what it is.

Complaining is when you plan to do nothing about it. Flat out, I refuse to support a country that won't help it's people. We'll see if that ends up being the case with this bill, and what the political ramifications are at that time.

No, you don't. You've made that clear. You have a preference for bills that help YOU. Other people are just out of luck. Too bad, so sad.

No. I have a preference for bills that help society. The effect it has on me is irrelevant. I have the means to be supported in other ways. Or I can simply choose to go to a country that has sane fiscal policies.

originally posted by: face23785
Many financial planners recommend that you save 10-15% of your pay for retirement. So 5% is actually much better than it sounds. The fact that you don't know this shows an alarming lack of even basic knowledge to be engaging in discussion on this subject.

5% is much less than 15%.

look i understand dems and their antitrump and republicans are the devil but trump is only one i have heard who actually wants to bring jobs back from overseas and mexico the clowns clinton, bush obama they kept telling us we were a service based economy and manufacturing was gone get over it we ll guess what companies outsourcing those jobs too. trump tax bill looks like a step in right direction hell the credits we get per child would double so no complaints from me.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

And whose fault is that?

It certainly isn't the fault of anyone passing the measure. If you have the ability to do it and you aren't, that's your fault and no one else's.

That's the whole point. Financial education in the US is horrible. An even bigger problem than that though, is that people don't have the opportunity to save. Even with rents on a decline right now, the average rent is $1350/month, which is typically 37% of income. Throw in utilities and you're approaching 45%. When nearly half of ones income just goes to shelter, how can people be expected to save anything?

One way would be to stop taking on rent and mortgages that take up such a large portion of your income. Most people I know who are struggling financially could easily get by with a smaller or less elaborate home. They just refuse to make that sacrifice until they can actually afford what they're currently living in. Same with cars. Almost everyone I know has a more expensive car than they really need. My last 3 cars have been Honda Civics. Even when I was an E6 in the Air Force making enough that I probably could've been driving a car twice as expensive. New phones every year or every other year, new this, new that. I know people who are proud that they spend $100+ a weekend on alcohol alone.

It's a culture problem. It's not The Man keeping you down.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
Many financial planners recommend that you save 10-15% of your pay for retirement. So 5% is actually much better than it sounds. The fact that you don't know this shows an alarming lack of even basic knowledge to be engaging in discussion on this subject.

5% is much less than 15%.

Indeed. It's still a significant contribution to your retirement, especially over the long run, which is exactly what retirement savings is. Again, if you were even remotely informed enough to be posting in this thread, you should know this.

originally posted by: TheRedneckSo you think everyone should max out their 401k, or they aren't doing their part? And saving 5% of income isn't sufficient?

Boy, oh, boy, are you really that clueless?

That is the minimum you should be doing, not the only thing.

401k retirement accounts are long-range accounts, which use small investment amounts over a long time to achieve enough income for retirement. As long as the investor has 30-40 years to contribute, that 5% is quite sufficient, probably over-sufficient even. Only someone with absolutely no concept of the time value of money would ever consider making such a statement.

Inflation is a thing, so are medical bills. If you live long enough, you are virtually guaranteed to need 1 million+ in just out of pocket medical costs. If all your savings gets you is 1.5 million, you effectively only have 1/3 of that to live on if you actually plan to pay your debts. If you have a spouse, that's another 1 million to cover them. Then you need sizable assets to pass on to your children. $100k in 1970 has the purchasing power of 1 million today. If you want to leave them a million in todays terms, that means you're going to need $10 million at the same inflationary rate.

5% will not get you there, and even if it did... 5% doesn't give you options in life, it's selling out your future to meet your present needs. Me? I want to impact the world, I want to take commercial space trips, I want to be a globetrotter, I want the money to be in the political donor class. When it comes to material goods I don't want much, but my desired lifestyle of being a digital nomad is not cheap.

Do you understand what investment means, even? Are you capable of doing your own taxes?

Yes. I do my own taxes every year. I have a personal policy too, that I always write a check for double my tax. If we all did that, we could eliminate the debt, but until that day comes I'll continue making my stand with that symbolic gesture as it's just money.

originally posted by: face23785
So when you took those gen ed courses, you weren't studying something that had something to do with finance, in college (or university)?

Reading comprehension may be a big part of your problem, in addition to little to no knowledge of the subject matter being discussed here.

My degrees are in Computer Science, Computer Graphics, Web Programming, Interactive Digital Technology, and Simulation Engineering.

originally posted by: face23785
One way would be to stop taking on rent and mortgages that take up such a large portion of your income. Most people I know who are struggling financially could easily get by with a smaller or less elaborate home.

I said to do just that with a breakdown of budget and what one should spend and you or another poster corrected me and told me that was all wrong and that's not how the world works.

It's a culture problem. It's not The Man keeping you down.

The man didn't stop you from making a bad decision. That's not necessarily completely bad, but often times the man encourages you to make that bad decision... gotta keep people borrowing/spending.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
So when you took those gen ed courses, you weren't studying something that had something to do with finance, in college (or university)?

Reading comprehension may be a big part of your problem, in addition to little to no knowledge of the subject matter being discussed here.

My degrees are in Computer Science, Computer Graphics, Web Programming, Interactive Digital Technology, and Simulation Engineering.

So yes, when you took financial classes, you were studying finance in college. I never said you got a degree in finance. You can't even follow something this simple, let alone the economic discussion.

a reply to: Aazadan

If you start saving at 25, and only make $50K a year and save 5% the whole time, with a modest 5% average rate of return over the 40 years, you can retire at 65 with close to $1M. That's assuming you never get a raise and make more money.

$1M isn't that much, but it depends on where you live. Where I live you can live very comfortably on $50K a year, and $1M would give you a comfortable retirement, adjusting for inflation. In other areas you would need more, but you would also make more than $50K a year. It scales, that's what percentages do. So yes, 5% is nothing to sneeze at. And that's assuming you never get to a point where you are making more and can save more.

Can you do everything you want to do in retirement on that kind of money? Probably not. But society doesn't owe you to be able to do anything you want. You need to get that entitled attitude out of your head, it's the cause of all your problems.

originally posted by: face23785
Can you do everything you want to do in retirement on that kind of money? Probably not.

Then why settle for less and do it?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Good to see that America under Trump continues to support the 1%.

I'm not anywhere near 1% and it will be good for me...do the calculator...

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
Many financial planners recommend that you save 10-15% of your pay for retirement. So 5% is actually much better than it sounds. The fact that you don't know this shows an alarming lack of even basic knowledge to be engaging in discussion on this subject.

5% is much less than 15%.

Just a heads up, most employers offer a matching % and the full amount is invested into your 401(k) plan. I realize from your posts that you have no real clue to what benefits employers can offer. True, employers limit the match percentage...but more often than not that 5% becomes 10% and is an extra non-taxable income that is invested.

Talk to your HR representative and make sure that you are wisely investing. Anything over that matching % may be better applied in other investments.

Edit add: Also 401(k) plans are awesome way to avoid needing to beg for a loan at a bank! We easily took a loan a few years back to replace a $20,000 roof. Paid it off and the interest to ourselves in 3 years. Then, last year, bought a brand new car. It will be paid off in a couple of years so we can replace our truck. it is amazing how much better deals you can get when you have cash!

Sharing this not just for you...but others too. Take advantage of ways to keep yourself from going into debt!

a reply to: CynConcepts

I'm aware of that benefit. Usually the match is up to 6%. Taking advantage of the match is effectively just adding another 3%, 6%, etc... to your salary (I think 6% is the most common number) so there's no reason not to do it. Despite that, only about 40% of employees at companies who do offer a 401k match ever take advantage of it, and 50% of those who do take advantage don't even fully max out the part their employer will match. The rest just don't have the money to put into savings.

Then there's the issue that not every company even offers a 401k match, though that trend has been dying out due to the tax advantages the government offers as an incentive to do so.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
Edit add: Also 401(k) plans are awesome way to avoid needing to beg for a loan at a bank! We easily took a loan a few years back to replace a $20,000 roof. Paid it off and the interest to ourselves in 3 years. Then, last year, bought a brand new car. It will be paid off in a couple of years so we can replace our truck. it is amazing how much better deals you can get when you have cash!

Sharing this not just for you...but others too. Take advantage of ways to keep yourself from going into debt!

Just caught your edit, addressing this seperately. Liquidity gives you power. Not only does it show that you have assets to repay a loan, but it gives you the option to say no to any financing deal you don't like. Banks, or any company offering financing wants to sell it to you because they make a profit on it. If you have an alternative method of paying for their product they'll give you much better terms in order to make a deal.

This is yet another reason why savings, and not just retirement savings are important. If you have savings to draw from you will wind up getting whatever product you wanted to buy at a lower rate than if you didn't have access to those assets.

All of which is to say why you can't just save 5%, that 5% is referring to your total savings rate, and 5% for retirement is going to be the bare minimum. You need other sorts of savings as well both short and long term.

a reply to: Aazadan

Financial education in the US is horrible.

That is the first true thing you've said all thread. How about we go for 2 now?

When nearly half of ones income just goes to shelter, how can people be expected to save anything?

Maybe if something else goes down... like TAXES.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Aazadan

Complaining is when you plan to do nothing about it. Flat out, I refuse to support a country that won't help it's people.

Exactly. You plan to do nothing about it. Except complain.

No. I have a preference for bills that help society.

If taking more of people's hard-earned money and telling partisan lies to accomplish it are your idea of helping society, please, please, please don't help us any more.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Aazadan

Inflation is a thing, so are medical bills. If you live long enough, you are virtually guaranteed to need 1 million+ in just out of pocket medical costs. If all your savings gets you is 1.5 million, you effectively only have 1/3 of that to live on if you actually plan to pay your debts. If you have a spouse, that's another 1 million to cover them. Then you need sizable assets to pass on to your children. $100k in 1970 has the purchasing power of 1 million today. If you want to leave them a million in todays terms, that means you're going to need $10 million at the same inflationary rate.

Are there unicorns in that fantasy world?

Most people will never SEE a million dollars, cumulative, in their lifetime.

Yes. I do my own taxes every year. I have a personal policy too, that I always write a check for double my tax. If we all did that, we could eliminate the debt, but until that day comes I'll continue making my stand with that symbolic gesture as it's just money.

Bull Potatoes!

You don't get it both ways... poor little rich guy on government assistance, surviving on Ramen Noodles and Vienna sausage to hear you tell it, desperately trying to make ends meet on the meager $60 an hour wage from five college degrees, and now you are a philanthropist?

Something smells rotten about your whole story, and it ain't the cheese.

TheRedneck