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IRS Nabs Big Win Over Coinbase In Bid For Bitcoin Customer Data

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posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:42 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: face23785
Which is probably most of the people buying it.


I would disagree. While it has been demonstrated that their are some truly ignorant people who don't understand investing and/or taxation on gains I think most people buying Bitcoin realize they will need to pay taxes on their gains.


Fair enough. I based my comment on the fact I've been seeing a lot of clueless people on social media talking about buying it because they keep seeing news about the price going up and it's trending right now. But you're right, that's probably a relatively small portion of the overall trading volume.




posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


As others have already pointed out, it's not about the taxes - it's about the governments ability to gain visibility into the transactions.

To be fair, I wasn't completely clear about that in my OP. But it's what I meant when I said all governments hate crypto-currencies. It's also essentially what the article is about.
edit on 11/30/2017 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Riffrafter


Call it a win for the federal government - mostly. The Court has issued a ruling in the battle between the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and Coinbase, a company which facilitates transactions of digital currencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum, to determine whether the IRS is entitled to customer data. Today, the Court granted in part and denied in part the federal government's petition to enforce the hotly contested summons: in other words, the IRS may legally investigate Coinbase account holders who may not have paid federal taxes on their virtual currency profits, but the scope of the summons has been dramatically narrowed.

IRS Nabs Big Win Over Coinbase In Bid For Bitcoin Customer Data

I knew this was going to happen eventually.

All governments *hate* Bitcoin and all crypto currencies.

Now the war will really begin...



This might be a good time to buy in. When hipsters think The Man is coming for their cryptocurrency, they're gonna keep buying more of it and driving the price up.


I would say time to cash in and get out of there



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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Eh, the bigtime people making the untold millions in bitcoin know all of the loopholes and tax havens just like the regular rich do.

For everyone else - a 15% capital tax on gains is peanuts when your up 1000+% in a year.


Plus, most people are hoarding their bitcoins for now, screw selling for fiat!
edit on 30-11-2017 by lightedhype because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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this is going to crush bitcoin and they know it

when the dirty government sticks their hands in everything they ruin

who do these dirtbags think they are



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
this is going to crush bitcoin and they know it

when the dirty government sticks their hands in everything they ruin

who do these dirtbags think they are


I don't think people realize what a big deal this is.

Crypto currency was one of the only equalizers available to the average Joe.

It's worth fighting for...



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:12 AM
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imo....this is just the first step in government take over of the internet. To track in their opinion, illegal unregulated monetary transactions, thus another attempt to stop the "war on terror"....can't have people buying armaments with cyber currency; is the reason they will use!



net neutrality..........DOA
edit on 30-11-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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I have a question about crypto currency (mods if this goes to far off topic please delete), I see a lot of people talking how there is nothing but hopes and dreams backing fiat paper money, and a lot of these same people saying crypto is secure and worth something.

What exactly is giving crypto currency its worth?

Is the only difference who controls the other end of the leash that is around your neck?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: face23785
Which is probably most of the people buying it.


I would disagree. While it has been demonstrated that their are some truly ignorant people who don't understand investing and/or taxation on gains I think most people buying Bitcoin realize they will need to pay taxes on their gains.


And just how would "gains" be demonstrated...

Not one person i have ever spoken with has paid taxes or ever plans too.

You would be a willing fool to pay taxes on cryptos with no set rules and no legal reason to do so at all.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: face23785
Which is probably most of the people buying it.


I would disagree. While it has been demonstrated that their are some truly ignorant people who don't understand investing and/or taxation on gains I think most people buying Bitcoin realize they will need to pay taxes on their gains.


And just how would "gains" be demonstrated...

Not one person i have ever spoken with has paid taxes or ever plans too.

You would be a willing fool to pay taxes on cryptos with no set rules and no legal reason to do so at all.


Only there are set rules and legal reasons.

You can choose not to declare your gains but it's tax evasion same as on any other investment.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: Riffrafter
As others have already pointed out, it's not about the taxes - it's about the governments ability to gain visibility into the transactions.

To be fair, I wasn't completely clear about that in my OP. But it's what I meant when I said all governments hate crypto-currencies. It's also essentially what the article is about.


So? The SEC has visibility to every stock transaction that takes place here, it's how they attempt to minimize stock fraud.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


Because they don't own the currency?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: ParasuvO
And just how would "gains" be demonstrated...


The IRS requires you to disclose additional income on your tax filing.


Not one person i have ever spoken with has paid taxes or ever plans too.


If their tax code requires them to they are stupid.


You would be a willing fool to pay taxes on cryptos with no set rules and no legal reason to do so at all.


The only willing fool is the one that wants to risk federal prison or hefty fines for tax evasion.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter
Because they don't own the currency?


It isn't about currency, it's about cap gains. The instrument isn't relevant, the profit from it is.




edit on 30-11-2017 by AugustusMasonicus because: Armaments 2:9-21 And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats...



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


Because they don't own the currency?


As far as IRS is concerned crypto is a commodity and is taxed as such. Why should it be given special treatment?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I would say time to cash in and get out of there

I agree, but it has nothing to do with the IRS. I think that this mad increase in value is due to it probably being a popular Christmas idea, coupled with the very noticeable and publicized increase.

After the new year, I expect the increase to plateau or even reverse as many people sell off much of their investment in favor of actual dollars in their bank account that they can spend everywhere.

This is the cryptocurrency's dot-com bubble, and it will pop soon.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

A bit of it is speculation. Another part is their quantity is usually fixed at some finite number (unlike US dollars), which gives trhem some measure of scarcity.

Another large portion is that a lot of technology based on blockchain and new crypto's coming out are based on the BTC or ETH algorithm, and their initial coin offerings have to be bought with those currencies, driving up the demand for them (and their price).



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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Folks...folks...calm down.

Capital gains taxes only apply to increased values of investments (or anything where monetary value was gained) if you sell them off for a profit. If you leave all of your money invested in your cryptocurrencies, and you don't sell them off, you don't have to report anything or pay any taxes until you DO sell them off for a profit.

That profit is what you will pay taxes on.

Here's a neat little tidbit of info: Even if you sell a car for more than you bought it for, that is supposed to be reported as a capital gain and the profits are taxable. This doesn't only affect investments, but many other things in life.

I can guarantee you that a large portion of Americans are guilty of evading capital gains taxes and not even knowing it, every single year.

ETA:

5 Things You Should Know About Capital Gains Tax
edit on 30-11-2017 by SlapMonkey because: added TurboTax link



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Riffrafter
As others have already pointed out, it's not about the taxes - it's about the governments ability to gain visibility into the transactions.

To be fair, I wasn't completely clear about that in my OP. But it's what I meant when I said all governments hate crypto-currencies. It's also essentially what the article is about.


So? The SEC has visibility to every stock transaction that takes place here, it's how they attempt to minimize stock fraud.


Does the SEC have authority over a currency that the government doesn't print?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Tempter
Because they don't own the currency?


It isn't about currency, it's about cap gains. The instrument isn't relevant, the profit from it is.





OK, this makes sense.




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