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Who is getting all the INTEREST from the National Debt of all the nations?

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posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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Just to make things a little clear, we are talking about $ 217.000.000.000.000,-

I might be of a dollar or two : )




posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:20 AM
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The Japanese government holds most of its own debt which has created one of the highest debt/GDP ratios in the world. Doesn't seem to be causing any inflation problems though?

Theoretically if a country just prints money and uses that fake cash to buy things from outside its borders there should be a free market response in the form of a currency devaluation. That response is tempered if the debt is backed by high interest bond rate ROI (which is not the case in Japan).

It was known ahead of time that US home owners were borrowing against perceived equity that was actually a fabricated lie. Even US president Obama filed for mortgage adjustment *after* purchasing a home with a fabricated equity valuation. The lesson seems to be buy now pay later you can't lose?

I have three questions
1. Who/what is controlling the currency markets outside of the FX free market system?
2. Could there be a bubble forming by countries (with historically good credit ratings) that have overextended their debt obligations?
3. Are *all* bonds becoming a thing of the past destined for default like mortgage backed securities in 2005?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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Anyone of you, ask these kind of questions:

Who makes the profit from national debt?

What private creditors are lending money to nations?

Ask questions like that. You will find no answers. If you do find answers that are TRANSPARENT please let me know and I'll throw a custard pie in my face like a good little clown.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

must I continue to make assumptions based on calculated guesses


Yes...



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: Revolution9

This is not some single entity lending on a single occaision.

Listen I agree it's not fair, and yes the public in general has little to no idea. And yes these entities make serious money.

But what do you have? Do you have a better alternative? Do you have the dirt and means to expose. We're all for transparency right up untill the point when it hits our wallet. Then all of a sudden no one wants to play ball, weird huh?
edit on 30-11-2017 by Jubei42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:28 AM
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originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: EartOccupant
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yup, so the intrest goes to the creators of the money... out of thin air.

Now who has the right to create money? That must be the people right? Or at least the government?

I know the answer.. And i don't like it.


No the interest goes to the people who buy the debt. The government who create the money pay it.


You are not saying who. You are being as elusive as the creditors. Tell us WHO then. Name them, name their companies.

I can't. I have tried.

We know about all the out in the open stuff. It is there in clear daylight. I want to know how much profit Agnelli and Rothschild make PERSONALLY out of the national debts of the nations. We have a right to know that in a democracy. I demand TRANSPARENCY. I want to know all about them. I want to know the names of them and their companies, ALL OF THEM.

Can anybody tell me? Or must I continue to make assumptions based on calculated guesses of observation?

I expect all I will get is a bullet for asking questions like that too often.



You want the right to know what financial assets private individuals own? Are you ok with everyone knowing your finances?



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:33 AM
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If all the debts in the world were paid by everyone then there would be no money left in circulation. Which I believe may be the overall plan.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Thats ok, we'll just sell everything that has a price and we're good



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes, even a child know this about interest going to those who lent it. I am asking WHO it goes to.

All of us her can only guess. They will not actually tell us.

You would need to be an Economics Professor to trace it all and then you would be wanting to keep very quite once you had for fear of losing your career, believe it.


USURY has been let loose on the entire world. It is destroying the world.

USURY is a monster. Like I said, it is not the people, but the system.

It is best we all try to fathom this. There are people making trillions each year from the debts of the nations; private individuals.



You simply do not understand banking and finance which is why you arent comprehending the answers. There is no single entity. Anyone who owns govt debt is getting paid. Anyone can be an individual investor owning a few bonds to large institutional investors like pension funds (aka teacher retirement plans) and other governments like China.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
If all the debts in the world were paid by everyone then there would be no money left in circulation. Which I believe may be the overall plan.


This is correct. However, that is a scenario that would never happen. The same goes for your local bank branch, it doesnt have enough money on hand to payout cash if every customer walked in at the same time. This is called a run on the bank. It does happen in a crisis but is very rare.

It is not necessarily a bad thing. Debt by itself is not evil.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Good point!

It is quite a feat to track who really own what and who is paid interest.

of course there are the usual suspects.

1. Goverment takes out a loan on the international moneymarket.
There are many players: official banks, institutional investors, private investors, semi governental entities, extra governmental entities (EMS for instance), traders in debt, IMF/ worldbank type of goons,
2. Banks take on debt.
a. deposits
b. Securization
3. people take on debt:
a. mortgage, credit card, carloan type, student loan type
b. non paid invoices
c. Trading via broker.
d. leases/ rentals.
4. Brokers take on debt
a. nett balance on trading accounts
b. open trades
5. business take on debt
a. unpaid invoices and fiscalities
b. bankloans
c. investmentloans
d. leases.

Every actor in this play also has the role of borrower in some instances. It is an intricate web that is sustained by two things:
1. entries into ledgers
2. the flow of money.

The amount of debt is not that important. What is important is the flow of money. On the revenue side of things,. the flow of money represents: GDP.

Here is the kicker: not every scheme involving money is part of GDP: drug use, prostitution illegal gambling, trafficking, etc. At best the flow of money and GDP are approximations. Allow me to go into a bit more detail regarding money flow:
Say that GDP consists of 4 transactions worth 1000 each. It means GDP = 1000 * 4= 4000. If these transaction involve 4 people who consecutively do business, I only need 1000 units of currency to facilitate the transaction. If two transaction are concurrent and 2 consecutive, I would need 2000 units of currency though GDP remains 4000.

From this simple example you can surmise that it is not a straight forward thing, for how do you measure the size of illegal enterprises? And second, how do you measure the amount of money that goes through the pipelines? What also becomes clear is that the time during which the transaction are carried out is important.

Suppose we have a money in circulation of 10.000, but 8000 is locked up in savings and 2000 is available for business. You can see how GDP get's constrained by savings. And you also understand that consumption and lowering of interest rate is not the answer. Borrowing more is neither an answer, because if you can borrow cheap, than you can earn money FROM money.

And this discovery fuels a whole new game in town. Trading on differences in value of currency.

Currency comes into being by debt. Debt comes into being by contract between two parties, usually a government and a printing agency. Government declares the printed units legal tender and there you have it. There are two ways for the printing agency to be paid: either the costs of production are being paid, or the Government pays interest on the created currency in circulation. Smart governments then also have negotiated a claim on the paid interest.

Where do all these treads finally go?

1. Interest payments to institutions are revenue to those institutions. Revenue minus costs is profit. And profit after paying tax is potential dividend. So, what you need to find out, is not who owns the debt, but who owns the institutions who hold debt.
2. once you have that, you only have to find the enabler in supra governmental institutions.

I happened upon this little piece of info from Der SPiegel in 2009:



It does not need to pay tax, and its members and employees enjoy extensive immunity. No other institution regulates the BIS, despite the fact that it manages about 4 percent of the world's total currency reserves, or €217 trillion ($304 trillion), as well as 120 tons of gold.


This is power to influence when you move only 1% of you assets. But if this only reflects 4%, what about the other 96.

There is if memory serves me well, a swiss guy who in 2009 came up with a report on who owns what, but I can't find it. So if any of you have gotten some ideas and are willing to be helpful to dig it up, it would b fantastic.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 10:32 AM
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It's kinda like taxing our gas. They say it's funds to maintain roads and highways. We then can see where that might be a truth, where our dollars are spent...maybe give a C- for effort.

Audit the fed was a meme that died out.

It's a shame too bc that if it was on the level, would document where funds were coming from and where funds are going, who's getting jewed and who's making out like a bandit.

I mean they have every dollar they could want- but it does not satiate these vermin. What are they really after?





posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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People. Nations.

U.S. Treasury bonds which are issued against the national debt, are the most stable investments in the world. Anyone with an IRA, 401k, etc., who has any portion of their investments in stable funds owns treasury bonds. You can go to your bank and buy Treasury Bonds.

U.S. treasury Bonds are bought by other nations as well.

A portion of may American's retirement is from the maturation of treasury bonds.

Obviously that doesn't help answer the question regarding other nations and their debt, but as for America, there's your answer. And it's why the national debt will never be zero.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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The economies of many nations are nothing but a scam. The USA is one of the worst there is.

Let the best deceivers rule the world is the motto we should adopt.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: EartOccupant
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yup, so the intrest goes to the creators of the money... out of thin air.

Now who has the right to create money? That must be the people right? Or at least the government?

I know the answer.. And i don't like it.


No the interest goes to the people who buy the debt. The government who create the money pay it.


You are not saying who. You are being as elusive as the creditors. Tell us WHO then. Name them, name their companies.

I can't. I have tried.

We know about all the out in the open stuff. It is there in clear daylight. I want to know how much profit Agnelli and Rothschild make PERSONALLY out of the national debts of the nations. We have a right to know that in a democracy. I demand TRANSPARENCY. I want to know all about them. I want to know the names of them and their companies, ALL OF THEM.

Can anybody tell me? Or must I continue to make assumptions based on calculated guesses of observation?

I expect all I will get is a bullet for asking questions like that too often.



Revolution9, just about a week or so ago you went on a pro-Israel rant saying that you would love to work for the Rothschilds. Now this?

Something aint right here..



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 02:49 PM
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I have asked this question many, many times and have come to the conclusion that it's a very big secretive scam.
The money borrowed in the first place and the cumulative debt, including interest was justified, I'll come back to that word, by the IMF.
Now justified means they didn't actually borrow any money just the right to spend more money than they had.
Now the answer you're looking for (and it's the big con) just who is the IMF. Well it's your own country, well 189 countries to be precise. So they are borrowing money off themselves at a higher rate than payback therefore creating the illusion that your country is in massive debt to someone else. Easy aint it.
Quite as easily they could decide as a whole to wipe everyone's debt out, but that would ruin their deception and ruin their reason to tax you to the hilt to pay off the debt instead of using your taxes to better your country.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 05:31 PM
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Anybody who buys a T-bill gets interest. It's not much because interest rates are at historical lows.



posted on Nov, 30 2017 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: Revolution9


Are you seriously this ignorant?

The fed creates bonds and auctions them off to raise money. The institutions that buy the bonds do so to get a safe investment that pays interest. Most bonds are bought up by insurance companies, mutual funds, and pension plans.

So if the interest doesn't get paid who suffers, ordinary Americans for the most part, their insurance rates will go up, their pensions will disappear, and taxpayers may very well be made to bail out the organizations that were counting on this interest being paid to them.

A fair amount of these bonds are held by foreign governments, but the majority are owned by American companies and individuals and the Social Security fund.

None of this information is hidden it's basic economics.




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