"Toxic Masculinity" Through the Lens of My Faith

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: olaru12

Masculine? As in societal norms, general body structure, or testosterone levels? Hard to say.

If I had to take a stab at it as a Christian, Jesus transcends norms as we know them. While he took human form to fulfill his role, he was something else. I am not in a position to comment on norms of the omnipotent.

No, I mean how did Jesus act according to scripture? Isn't that supposed to be the Christian ideal.

"What would Jesus do"

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I see what you are saying and there is merit there. However, would you consider an individual is still responsible for his or her actions on top of original sin?

I think so. Original sin indicates I am imperfect and until death will remain so. There was only one way around that. It does not, however, provide a responsibility-free passage for transgressions between birth and death. If it did, why would Jesus have to teach anything?

My dos centavos on that.

a reply to: olaru12

Masculine enough to have felt all the same temptations a man would feel.

So his body was a human body with all urges that would imply. Some feminists today would say he likely had toxic masculinity just for that realization.

a reply to: olaru12

What did he teach?

You can go read the words as well as I. There are plenty of teachings there.

a reply to: olaru12

How masculine was Jesus?

and...

I mean how did Jesus act according to scripture? Isn't that supposed to be the Christian ideal.

Sorry if I did not make the leap. Not sure what it has to do with the OP but I'll try.

Jesus's message is at the heart of the Christian faith. According to the New Testament, the Gospels particularly, he lived that message. Personally I aspire to that ideal knowing full well I am flawed beyond redemption on Earth.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

What did he teach?

You can go read the words as well as I. There are plenty of teachings there.

I have read the Bible and imo Jesus was soft, caring, and taught compassion and Love.

Certainly not the brand of Christianity I see today.

a reply to: Woodcarver

What surprises me the most is the amount of young people actively and loudly calling for socialism and downright communism.

Maybe it has something to do with the lack of education about these subjects? History seems to be a waste of time especially when you need compliant masses.

a reply to: olaru12

I cannot speak to what you see today as I do not know your experience.

There are many well meaning but confused Christians. I have often found this frustrating as the message has been there to study for 2000+ years.

Jesus was indeed loving, accepting, and wise. These, among others things, are what I aspire to demonstrate everyday. I do not always succeed.

a reply to: ABNARTY

"Toxic Masculinity" Through the Lens of My Faith page: 2

You probably saw this coming. I know you are a Trump supporter and.....


How does he stack up on the Christian Toxic Masculinity ABNARTY scale? "Thru the Lens of your Faith"

Perhaps if god had sent his only daughter, none of this would be an issue.

a reply to: ABNARTY

Yes the Bible is full of toxic masculinity:

No. 1:St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church:
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people:
“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

No. 3: A command of Moses:
“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church:
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile
crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them:
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:
“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out:
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son:
‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

How can the Bible be so wrong on the topic of slavery and still be thought to be the word of God. Just not possible.

a reply to: Aliensun

It will probably escape your horizon, but there is a new breed of man in town, and he is far less endowed with aggressive genes that his antecedents. You may want to know why and how that can be, but that answer will probably remain elusive.

Yeah, we've noticed.
And it's a constant source of amusement.

a reply to: olaru12

I am not a Trump supporter. I did not vote for him. Out of 330+ million Americans, we can do better but we are where we are. I will try to make the best of it.

I have never met the man. I do not know him other than what is portrayed in the media. While everybody laughs and jokes about him (myself included from time to time) I seriously cannot say. I do not know you and I would hesitate to make the same judgement.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Your initial comment assumes "toxic masculinity" exists and then moves forward.

Obviously you read the OP and know what I think on the subject. You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

Yes the Bible has stories of many humans. Imperfect humans. Sinning humans. Taken out of context, it is not difficult to pick-n-choose bits and pieces to spin a tale quite opposite the message of Jesus. So what?

That's as far as I'm going on this tangent. There are 5001 threads on ATS to discuss that subject. I suggest you visit and make your voice heard.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
All sins are detrimental.

Like this one?

Why Did Jesus Not Get Involved in Politics?

Did the First-Century Christians Participate in Politics?

Should the Clergy Preach Politics?

How to Keep Separate From the World

The End of False Religion Is Near!

...
A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?

False Religion . . .

▪ MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war?
...

2 Cor. 10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare* [” Lit., “we are not doing military service.”] according to what we are in the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God; and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ;


Song 62 To Whom do you Belong Vocal Renditions

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: olaru12

Masculine? As in societal norms, general body structure, or testosterone levels? Hard to say.

If I had to take a stab at it as a Christian, Jesus transcends norms as we know them. While he took human form to fulfill his role, he was something else. I am not in a position to comment on norms of the omnipotent.

You can always just let Jesus do most of the 'talking'...

John 13:15, 17 (Jesus speaking and teaching)

15 For I set the pattern for you, that just as I did to you, you should also do.

17 If you know these things, happy you are if you do them.

1 Peter 20-23

For what merit is there if you are beaten for sinning and you endure it? But if you endure suffering because of doing good, this is an agreeable thing to God.

21 In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. 22 He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. 23 When he was being insulted,* [Or “reviled.”] he did not insult* in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten, but he entrusted himself to the One who judges righteously.

James 3:13-18

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him by his fine conduct demonstrate works performed with a mildness that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and contentiousness* [Or possibly, “selfish ambition.”] in your hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above; it is earthly, animalistic, demonic. 16 For wherever there are jealousy and contentiousness,* there will also be disorder and every vile thing.

17 But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, not hypocritical. 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for* [Or possibly, “by.”] those who are making peace.

Song 141 Searching for Friends of Peace (with lyrics)

Back to Jesus...

Matthew 5:2, 5, 7, 9, 11:

2 Then he opened his mouth and began teaching them, saying:
...
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered,* [Or “meek.”] since they will inherit the earth.
...
7 “Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.
...
9 “Happy are the peacemakers,* [Or “peaceable.”] since they will be called sons of God.
...
11 “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake.


Coming back to James 3:17 for a moment:

"But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, not hypocritical."

The video above contains quotations from Jesus with some of his best stuff, if one doesn't feel like watching any of the videos I'm sharing (also containing many bible quotations and based on bible teachings), at least watch the one above, it won't kill ye and it's like only 4 minutes of your life. What harm can it possibly do to have a peek (even when you are quite opposed to bible teachings or you feel it's just a book of myths used for brainwashing and "control" purposes or something like that)?

Bonus:
Song 114 God's Own Book—A Treasure vocals

Skillfully Wield “the Sword of the Spirit”

“Accept . . . the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word.”—EPH. 6:17.

“Put On the Complete Suit of Armor From God”

“Put on the complete suit of armor from God that you may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil.”—EPHESIANS 6:11.

Put On the Complete Suit of Armor From God (video)

a reply to: whereislogic

Careful....Christians don't like being "preached" too.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JimNasium

You are talking about the failures of humanity.

God's message is what it always has been.

Sin is sin whether you want to believe that or not.

May I ASS/U/Me when You typed "whether you want to believe it or not" You didn't mean Me, Me but the "other Me" yeah?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

What did he teach?

You can go read the words as well as I. There are plenty of teachings there.

1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.

The greatest 2 commandments Jesus emphasized and quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures (the "greatest and first commandment" at Deuteronomy 6:5):

Matthew 22:34-40

"you can't use his name!"
THE DIVINE NAME

1 John 5:2,3

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and carry out his commandments. 3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,

a reply to: whereislogic

I have to say that is quite a lot to digest. A+ for putting it all together.



I appreciate the collection and it's clarification of the message.

PBUY as well.