WAR: Germany calls for end to Irans isolation

Stating that they needed to offer economic and other incentives to get Iran to abandon its nuclear program, Germany called for the end of the isolation placed on that country. European officials have been worried because the United States has refused to rule out military action against Iran.



It remains to be seen if diplomatic effort will work in this case. Iran having seen the respect that North Korea gets by having nuclear weapons and no doubt craves that level of security. Should diplomatic efforts fail, what exactly is the next step. Even with the help of the E.U. nations, taking Iran by force is not the cakewalk Iraq was. Also as we have seen the peace is often harder than the war.

It seems to me that the E.U. wants to pay Iran not to produce nuclear weapons.....smells like trouble to me


Oh wait, Iran already HAS nuclear weapons, so why are we playing these BS games?

Lotsa people have nukes, including Pakistan and a few other nations on the brink of war. People fail to realize the vast cultural differences between here and there. Democracy thrives here because we have an educated public. We have an educated public because we don't have to work from the age of ten to feed our families. Want to spread liebrty and freedom? Make the rabble comfortable, well educated, and well fed. The first step isn't the bayonet, it's the open hand.

DE

Economic incentives worked real well in N Korea we gave them money and they went right on and built nuclear weapons.

Really the only ones anybody has ever got to disarm was South Africa

Originally posted by DeusEx
Lotsa people have nukes, including Pakistan

DE

I wouldn't say "lotsa of people have nukes" More like only around 10 countries out of the whole world.

USA
Russia
UK
China
France
India
Pakistan
N Korea
Iran
Isreal

And perhaps some ex-soviet bloc countries, Really its a small percentage of the world nations. The vast majority of countries make do fine without any nuclear weapons.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by ShadowXIX]

What speaks more loudly than religion in today's world? Money. The fact is, you invest in Iran (which has a huge market) and bring them into the international economic community, and you will have no problems, at least not nuclear. There's one thing you can always count on with the elite, and that's money. Not that I agree with it, but that's how it is.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Lotsa people have nukes, including Pakistan and a few other nations on the brink of war. People fail to realize the vast cultural differences between here and there. Democracy thrives here because we have an educated public. We have an educated public because we don't have to work from the age of ten to feed our families. Want to spread liebrty and freedom? Make the rabble comfortable, well educated, and well fed. The first step isn't the bayonet, it's the open hand.

DE

It's too bad that the 9-11 hijackers came from wealthy and extremely comfortable families, eh?

Sorry, but standard issue liberal ideas ("A person's behavior is determined by their standard of living... so we only need to give our enemies money...") just don't seem believable anymore.


Giving aid to Iran will just leave us with a situation where we give aid to Iran... and they still prepare atomic weapons that can be used against us. In the same light, giving money to terrorists just makes for wealthier terrorists.

It is the IDEOLOGY of the terrorist that must be changed, not his level of comfort.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Want to spread liebrty and freedom? Make the rabble comfortable, well educated, and well fed. The first step isn't the bayonet, it's the open hand.

DE

Sounds right to me.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Economic incentives worked real well in N Korea we gave them money and they went right on and built nuclear weapons.

Really the only ones anybody has ever got to disarm was South Africa

Yeah, and war really helped Vietnam stay democratic and free. Really stopped those commies from conquering all of southeast asia, kept the region stable.

Everyone wants nukes, because they're good to have around. Lotsa power, so you don't have to buy coal and a powerful deterent to attack.

As for your list of countries with nukes, how many of those nation is America turning against? ANd that's only the accredited nations with nuclear weapons, because I'm fairly sure there are some east-bloc countries with nuclear power plant.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

Everyone wants nukes, because they're good to have around. Lotsa power, so you don't have to buy coal and a powerful deterent to attack.

Everyone does not want nukes, you think countries like Canada, Japan, Australia dont have the tech to make nukes? Making a nuke is not that hard for a well developed country heck its not that hard for a undeveloped country.

And yet the vast majority of countries have no nuclear arsenal

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
It's too bad that the 9-11 hijackers came from wealthy and extremely comfortable families, eh?

Yeah, because it's hard to really get into america without it. Generally, airplane pilots, boat captains, etc. don't take goats and grain as a valid form of payment. Oh yeah, about those hijackers... how many of them have turned out to be alive and well, eh? Do you even know who they were for sure?

Sorry, but standard issue liberal ideas ("A person's behavior is determined by their standard of living... so we only need to give our enemies money...") just don't seem believable anymore.

Sorry, simple sociology doesn't seem to work in a conservative world. Not our fault that there are exceptions to the rule.

Giving aid to Iran will just leave us with a situation where we give aid to Iran... and they still prepare atomic weapons that can be used against us.

Oh yeah, because you've done that before. You traded tonnes and tonnes of missiles and guns to iran...and look what happened!

Absolutely nothing. Oh, BTW...it was Reagan who gave them those missiles, since they're you're enemy...

In the same light, giving money to terrorists just makes for wealthier terrorists.

Simple then...you shouldn't have sent all those checks to OBL in the 80's, then. See, when you backstab, bombard, etc. your erstwhiel allies, you make enemies. Poor enemies turn to terrorism. Logic. You don't have tanks, so what are you goign to do to oppose a foreign invasion force?

It is the IDEOLOGY of the terrorist that must be changed, not his level of comfort.

Maybe you shouldn't encourage the ideology...or train people how to commit terrorist acts then, maybe?

DE

Originally posted by Jamuhn
What speaks more loudly than religion in today's world? Money. The fact is, you invest in Iran (which has a huge market) and bring them into the international economic community, and you will have no problems, at least not nuclear. There's one thing you can always count on with the elite, and that's money. Not that I agree with it, but that's how it is.

And why would we want to do that?

So they can make more nuclear weapons to try and kill us with?


You say we will have no problem...I disagree, when I see, painted on the side of a missle, Death to America, I see kilatons of problems.

Until the Iranian government changes its views and practices I see no reason to give them anything, except a boot out the door of coarse

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Everyone does not want nukes, you think countries like Canada, Japan, Australia dont have the tech to make nukes? Making a nuke is not that hard for a well developed country heck its not that hard for a undeveloped country.

And yet the vast majority of countries have no nuclear arsenal

Yeah, they don't. But they have the technology, and all the countries you jsut listed use them for peaceful purposes. Up here, we have power plants of the nuclear variety.

Also, generally, the US doesn't threaten those countries. Generally.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
As for your list of countries with nukes, how many of those nation is America turning against? ANd that's only the accredited nations with nuclear weapons, because I'm fairly sure there are some east-bloc countries with nuclear power plant.

Not all of the reactors are capable of making weapons grade fissile material either. Not sure of the exact numbers and I will have to dust off a few references to get an exact number.

The open hand approach has not worked with North korea, nor would I expect to work all that well with the leadership of Iran. They are fundamentaly opposed to our entire system of life and government and religous freedoms etc. Note the "Leadership" the average Iranian citizen would welcome close ties with the U.S. and Europe.

A normal logical reasonable person would take economic health over nuclear weapons any day of the week. However religious fanatics are rarely logical or reasonable and some members of Iran's government do fall under the classification of religious fanatic. Unless of course they just pretend to be fanatics but i don't see why they would do that. I don't want a war with Iran so i think i will just close my eyes and hope they go away... are they gone yet? Meh it's America's and Israel's problem not mine some will say but it's that kind of thinking that lets agressive countries divide and conquer.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Trent]

This is a very smart move by Germany. I am sure many people have heard the sentence, "keep you friends close but your enemies closer". This is exactly what Germany is doing. Remember what Bush said a while ago, "we've sanctioned ourselves out of influence with Iran", now if trade was to resume, the Europians and the Americans have alot more to negotiate with. And another point is that, a rich country, who doesnt have fears, doesnt use nuclear weapons, but a poor desprate country might.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Yeah, they don't. But they have the technology, and all the countries you jsut listed use them for peaceful purposes. Up here, we have power plants of the nuclear variety.

Haha FOOLS that's just what we want you to think. Terra Australis will soon rule you all *evil laugh*

On a more serious note, this link tells the story of our illogical want for nuclear weapons. I was surprised when i first heard about this.

www.abc.net.au...

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by HardCore American
It seems to me that the E.U. wants to pay Iran not to produce nuclear weapons.....smells like trouble to me

Oh wait, Iran already HAS nuclear weapons, so why are we playing these BS games?

Iran does not have nuclear weapons, even your government says that. Do you know anything of the current situation or are you just trolling?

Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Iran is trying to build a nuclear stockpile to "protect" itself from Israel. Iran may consider buying nuclear weapons if it cannot build them.

Originally posted by Kriz_4


Iran does not have nuclear weapons, even your government says that. Do you know anything of the current situation or are you just trolling?

Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons?....now thats funny

A nuclear facility on a military base is all the proof i need

Iran not having nuclear weapons is like saying Isreal doesn't have them...its niave and stupid to think otherwise