Is the Su-57 project effectively toast?

a reply to: mightmight

This really needs to another board, folks.

The roles of tanks are not on topic...

Yep back on track..Unless Russia seriously overhauls its manufacturing capabilities and structure 'anything" they put out will have he same trouble..The smart thing would be to bring in an outside contractor to do all the problem solving and get the engine reliability issues up to speed.To have a true Stealth platform they have to look at a clean sheet and stop dragging gen 4 tech into a Gen 5 platform.Or is it they cant think that far ahead?

a reply to: Blackfinger

The trouble with that is any outside contractor with the skills needed to bring the Su-57 with engines and manufacturing quality to needed standards would be Western...and to put it mildly, that may raise a few issues with some governments...

a reply to: Borys

I could hypothetically see the French doing it, but after all the grief they got about the Mistrals, not so much.

a reply to: Barnalby

NATO would throw a fit, and there would be sanctions. It is one thing the French wanting to complete an existing agreement, quite another to help Russia create a next gen aircraft after recent events.

The Chinese? Maybe. Whilst the Russians do have a lead over China in many areas of military technology, the reality now and into the future is that China has fielded (not just prototyped) some very impressive technology lately and will use the fact that its economy is 8 times Russia's size and blessed with some advanced civilian high tech manufacturing that they are learning to adapt to the military. Question is...would the Chinese do it?

a reply to: Borys

The problem with China is that advanced jet engines also seem to be their weakness, too, though they still have manufacturing capabilities that are leagues beyond the Russians, of the Su-57/J-20 comparison is anything to go by.

The problem that both face is that their domestic engine designs are little more than slightly warmed over 1980s-era turbofans with Soviet-era IR emissions and reliability, while their 5th generation aspirations and beyond will require something significantly more advanced.

It's like jumping straight from the TF30 to the F135 with no intermediate steps, and it's going to be a long and painful process, no matter whether it's the Russians or the Chinese who end up pulling it off.

a reply to: Barnalby

Well, the only solution to the problem is do what America did under Reagan back in the 1980s.

Throw money at it. Lot's of money. For a long time. And hope for the best.

a reply to: Borys

In a sign that is really not good for the Su-57, the Russians are ordering 36 Su-30SM. While the Su-30 is a multirole fighter more like the F-15E, the money could have been spent moving the development on the Su-57 along.

www.vedomosti.ru...

a reply to: anzha
Almost like playing with F15s with lots of missiles on them when someone can make more F35,s or throw it at the next gen fighter..

a reply to: Blackfinger

It probably means they are having major problems with the SU-57 on some level.

Note: they flew the SU-57 to syria and did a few strikes with it. Then they withdrew it very fast.

My bet is that found problems and without the Indian money, they are not going to fix them quickly. The other bet is that an F-22 came up and goosed them while they didn't know the F-22 was there. That'd be devastating. But that's borderline, if not outright, tinfoil hat territory.

The Su-30 buy is actually really cheap: they're supposedly getting them for $27 to $28 million each.

For that price we ought to buy 26 and use them as aggressors. We can funnel the money through, say Indonesia.

a reply to: anzha

It's still just accounting, imo.

12 immature aircraft with immature engines that aren't really service ready. Or 36 very mature and capable Flanker variants?

They're broke and they have an immediate need.

a reply to: RadioRobert

They ordered both. As I stated, the Su-30 was at a very good price, less than $28M/bird.

The Su-57's price for the initial contract is not something I've been able to find a actual value for that first LRIP. The only thing I have found is a citation on wikipedia that goes...nowhere. They claim $50M/aircraft. I have significant doubts about that at this point.

a reply to: anzha

The last price that I saw was $100M/aircraft.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That puts the ballpark cost of the LRIP contract at $1.2B. About 20% more than the contract for the 36 Su-30s.

That's the sort of price differential that Boeing ought to be trying for with the 15X. However, I know its not possible at this point. Even $45M would make it really tempting though.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That puts the ballpark cost of the LRIP contract at $1.2B. About 20% more than the contract for the 36 Su-30s.

That's the sort of price differential that Boeing ought to be trying for with the 15X. However, I know its not possible at this point. Even $45M would make it really tempting though.

a reply to: anzha

Boeing could probably hit below those numbers if they pushed for a SLEP-style upgrade program. But Boeing is all about keeping their lines open because when they close, they have no product to sell today, only promises for tomorrow.

I'm sure gump will help his Buddy out

Oh my, what have we here?

a reply to: anzha

haha omg

Sapsan-E laser Electro-Optical Targeting pod i think. Please tell me they are just trolling.

a reply to: mightmight

Doesn't appear to be.

I hope they are for their sake.