Athiests vs The Religious Conspiracy... Explain to Me Why Believers Believe.

Religion is based upon faith, superstition and ignorance. Its adherents like that part about faith. As Huck Finn noted, faith is when you believe in something you know ain't true.

I'm all for freedom of worship, but it really is a demeaning process.

To have faith and belief in God and in God's love and providence is to have a place to express one's gratitude.

It lifts us up out of a pit of ignorance and stupidity and narrow-mindedness and restores us to our rightful place.

It also serves to humble us where it could be said that the definition of humility is to know one's self as you truly are.

When I read the statements of many atheists, I just cringe both at their arrogance and ignorance.

But when they disparage the faith and understanding of others, in particular Christians who have a model of authentic leadership which came to serve and not to be served with certain statements and proclamations, I think they hurt only themselves, while removing for themselves and others faith in God as a possibility.

It is so small and narrow minded, even pathetic. How dare they? What gives them the right? What makes them an authority? What do they even know about it?

Atheists shouldn't even care what people of faith believe or why, never mind troll them disingenuously and inauthentically.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

(Facepalm)
You are free to believe whatever you like. Whatever god you want to believe in, please go ahead.
I am an atheist, I do not believe in the existence of any god. This is not arrogance, this is not ignorance, this is what I have chosen to believe. based on my studies of the actual bible. This is my personal belief. I don't try and convert other people, I don't shout out my disbelief at the top of my voice and I don't march with a placard.
All I want is to be left alone and not bothered by theists. Unfortunately theists tend to shout loudly at me. So tell me, who is being a troll?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I wasn't referring to the beliefs of atheists, but to their attitude and approach (many of them), and to their assumptions and statements of ignorance about all people of faith and belief.

Many appear like children with an axe to grind, but don't have the first clue about what they're talking about.

They make statements as if they are facts.

It's rude and ignorant.

And they're snarky and mean-spirited about it too while they're at it.

It's ridiculous.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I wasn't referring to the beliefs of atheists, but to their attitude and approach (many of them), and to their assumptions and statements of ignorance about all people of faith and belief.

Many appear like children with an axe to grind, but don't have the first clue about what they're talking about.

They make statements as if they are facts.

It's rude and ignorant.

And they're snarky and mean-spirited about it too while they're at it.

It's ridiculous.

Yes, you are referring to the beliefs of atheists. As I said, I am an atheist. I have come to that position after much study and research into religion, Christianity to be precise. I have my own reasons for not believing in any deity, reasons that I believe are based on facts. You seem to think that there is a war on theism by atheists. I think that you have it backwards.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg


No, I'm not. I am referring to statements like this

originally posted by: Salander
Religion is based upon faith, superstition and ignorance. Its adherents like that part about faith.

How utterly rude and ignorant, and arrogant. I see it all the time. It is just so presumptuous, so arrogant and so il-informed.

I almost feel sorry for them, and they're hard to pray for, but put up with it and pray for them we must. Jesus understood full well what His followers would be up against.

What motivates many of them (snarky atheists) however, is rather suspect. I think it resides in their blindspot that they cannot disern how inauthentic and disingenous their statements really are. I don't think they're aware.

And it's so EASY and so LAZY to make those kinds of statements. It really is pathetic, small-minded, arrogant and rude.

I think that if they became aware of their hidden motivations, that they would be ashamed of themselves.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


No, I'm not. I am referring to statements like this

originally posted by: Salander
Religion is based upon faith, superstition and ignorance. Its adherents like that part about faith.

How utterly rude and ignorant, and arrogant. I see it all the time. It is just so presumptuous, so arrogant and so il-informed.

I almost feel sorry for them, and they're hard to pray for, but put up with it and pray for them we must. Jesus understood full well what His followers would be up against.

What motivates many of them (snarky atheists) however, is rather suspect. I think it resides in their blindspot that they cannot disern how inauthentic and disingenous their statements really are. I don't think they're aware.

And it's so EASY and so LAZY to make those kinds of statements. It really is pathetic, small-minded, arrogant and rude.

I think that if they became aware of their hidden motivations, that they would be ashamed of themselves.

You seem to be forgetting that I am an atheist myself. I have no hidden motivations. I am NOT ashamed of what I am. Once again: I have come to the personal conclusion that no deity exists after much personal research and study. Why do you insist that other atheists have not?

originally posted by: BStoltman
...... I read every word of the Bible, and took it so seriously that I even attained a mediocre ability to read the text in its original Hebrew & Greek Language.

....I have always wondered, if people who claim to be of a professed religious ideal actually read their own text. What makes you believe in a God if you do? I am honestly curious about it.....

Unfortunately (or Fortunately) many people who have experienced a religion based educational program or read the Bible " and took it so seriously..." have become Atheist.

I believe it was supposed to encourage further thought and consideration and not meant to read word for word literally.

As to the actual question though "What makes you believe in a God?" -

First, if you ask 10 people what "believe in" means or what "God" means you'll get 10 different answers. That renders the question "Do you believe in God?" fairly useless. Many people will answer yes or no which provides very little information to the questioner, words are only symbols at best, meaning different things to different people.

All the books, words, teachings, pictures etc. are an attempt with things that can be defined to describe something that is basically beyond description.

I think the only way to become a real "believer" if that's even a useful word, is through experience.
When that occurs, all the books, words, teachings, pictures etc. become as meaningless as any other story about things that are describable.

How does one attain this experience? I think reading "between the lines" of everyone's religious books, words, teachings, pictures etc. helps point the way, but the final steps have to taken by the individual, there really aren't books, words, teachings, pictures etc. that can do it.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Your listening and comprehension skills are lacking.

I wasn't referring to you or your beliefs.

Also, if you cannot see what I'm pointing and referring to among many atheists, then you're also willfully blind.

I actually honor an atheist's right not to believe, because then it makes the possibiliy of faith and belief, for all the right reasons, possible.

a reply to: Woodcarver

But history has shown that mankind is enslaved and rewarded by those who will set “morals” aside to gain power.

It was offered that “morals” keep the world from descending into chaos. Really? How has Hitler and others come to power? Rule after rule on murder, yet their is still those that murder? And get away with murder.

I would say people are putting God aside more than ever? That people are embracing science and putting “superstition” aside more than ever. The moral compass of the social contact is being tested more than ever. And the rich are getting richer. The world is as chaotic as ever, if not more so?

If there is no Godly moral authority, what difference does it make if a ruler can effectively maintain order through murder and a police state?

Is it false to say there are those that have came to power, obtained a luxurious life, and have been rewarded for breaking the social contract?


You see God as a lie? I see the lie that morals derived from a social contract prevent chaos, suffering, and create a just world.

You see the lie of trusting God? I see the lie in trusting man and a material existence!

Or it might be more accurate to say: there are those that put aside the contemporary social contract, and murdered and deceived to obtain power to place themselves into power to dictate the morals that would keep them in power.

a reply to: neutronflux

Actually, a secular humanism devoid of a higher moral authority amid competing self interests works just fine, until a time of crisis places them at odds with one another.

Civility: Consciously motivated organizational behavior that is ethical in submission to a higher moral authority.

Then it becomes possible to navigate the eye of the needle.

You point to how people are setting aside and forgetting about God, and at the same time how the fabric of a moral society is falling apart at the seems. That does make sense.

a reply to: neutronflux

Wait, what? Are you trying to imply that Hitler was an atheist? As far as I was aware he was convinced that there was a god.

a reply to: BStoltman

I've read the Bible, but I also dabbled in some Satan crap when I was a young boy. I read off a couple of spells that were supposed to invoke demons. I was at home alone one night and I read some of the spells out loud and for awhile nothing happened, but I could feel something dark, as my skin was getting chills. About an hour later weird stuff started happening in my house, and that was it. Years later when I was a teen, I started getting visits by demons that would torment me every night. Worse things than I've seen in some Marilyn Manson videos.

One demon came in the form of a woman, and she was pretty. It was in my bedroom and she kept doing small things that made me question her intentions. I called her out on those things and she tried to convince me that they were just small quirks, or accidents, and then I saw her do them intentionally, so I called her out again, this time she turned into some witchy looking woman and started choking me. I remember her hands felt like hard leather wrapped around stone, as she choked me. I then called out for Jesus, and started repeating "get thee behind me Satan", over and over because that was the only words I could remember from a movie on Jesus, but I remember hearing somewhere that the words of Jesus hurts demons, because his words are of the light.

That was just one crafty meeting, but I got tormented for years after that even by actual ugly, monstrous demons and they were not out to impress me or play games like that first one. They were all business.

So here's why I believe. Now I haven't seen God, or even had a one on one with Jesus, and I have never seen Jesus, but I've seen what Hell has face to face, and it's exhilarating as well as terrifying, but I can only derive from all that I've seen on the darkside, that there must be a good side too. All I know is when I called on Jesus and spoke his very words and believed in it....those suckers ran away fast every time....well....most of the time, occasionally I would have to repeat the words several times, but they always ran before I had a chance to get hurt or anything.

* I know someone is going to ask, so I'll go ahead and let you know. Some nights it happened just before I would doze off...I would be frozen still while body bags danced in front of me and things like that. I could feel like a static charge on me and a high pitched noise, almost like a dog whistle. I could do nothing but watch, however some of it happened while I was wide awake. People that know me, wonder why I am so stoic all the time and without empathy. It's because of the things I've seen. When you see the things that I have seen from the other side, it changes you, it numbs you.

I know there will be those that don't believe me, but that's not why I wrote this. The OP asked a question and I answered. It doesn't affect me in any way if you don't believe me.

a reply to: BStoltman

Early on I went to a youth group, raised my hand and said the prayer, and nothing happened. I felt nothing, I knew nothing. I tried to read the Bible and it might as well have been a different language...well it was KJV...It wasn't until I went to a Youth for Christ group for a while, and was loved on despite my marilyn manson shirts and spiked leather collar. During a trip they made the call for those of us who wanted to wanted to make the decision to choose Christ...they took us outside and talked to us individually. I prayed the prayer, like I had before, but this time it hit me like a ton of bricks. This intense feeling of love, of peace, of all the weight and stress lifted off my shoulders. I began to read the Bible and it made sense to me! I think that belief involves the works of the Holy Spirit to some extent.
I've known Christians who had amazing spiritual encounters, and those who have said "eh I guess I believe." What keeps me believing is this feeling of hope, I can't explain it, but that's just how it is for me

originally posted by: apydomis
Why I believe in God in three minutes or less: The universe started somehow. That beginning had a beginning. The universe seems to have a consciousness, that consciousness had a beginning. That consciousness is bigger than I am, and everyone else combined. I can dream, which to me seems to be a communication of some sort. And I believe that I have died before – and I saw my body. I also believe that this is all just an illusion- but it is a logical illusion. I could go on, but I have to get my kids ready for school! Which is another reason why I believe in God. I asked and I received.

Oh my... There is so much wrong with this that I don't know where to begin! The universe seems to have consciousness??? Erm, please do elaborate! If it is conscious it's VERY haphazard! Galaxies colliding, stars exploding, black holes sucking in everything that moves! I see nothing that would indicate consciousness!

Dreams? DREAMS? Communication? With what? Your dreams come from your brain! You brain is still working while you sleep, sorting all of the days memories into storage! There is nothing mystical about dreams!

You "believe" you died before... Oh... Well that's funny because you're still here, so nope, you did not die!

And then it's all just an illusion, which makes this universal conscience an illusion too, which makes your god an illusion, and your dreams and everything else you said!

You asked and received? Wow... Imacculate conception eh? Oh wait, nope... You had SEX with someone and that produced a baby! As if by magic! Lol

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Really lets have a look here [url=http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/gods.htm]Names of god(s) lets have a look at what they all have in common.

They have creation stories for the universe and man, they were all in isolated pockects round the Earth, god(s) were used to explain things men did not understand at the time hence Sun, Moon & Rain gods etc etc.

Now everyone of the stories about the god(s) in the list above have as much right as any other to be believed they can't all be right BUT they can all be wrong.

3000+ god(s) on this tiny rock in the universe shows that MAN creates god(s) not the other way.

a reply to: BStoltman

Of course it makes more sense to believe in a haphazard world thst got slushed together accidentally ... that all the beauty snd mathematical order in the world Is an accident.... ok then .

I was brought up as a Christian,my father a lay leader,I do believe we had a creator not even a remote chance we just happened on earth,I think religion was used as a law to get people to conform,the 10 commandments aren't such bad laws,for the point,if everyone practiced it we would be living in harmony,but the rich,must be richer,I believe the bible is a compromise

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: dfnj2015
Why would you accept those axioms though? Especially since many of the claims in the bible cannot be tested or can simply be shown to be impossible. Talking animals, jesus healing the blind and leperous? Walking on water, the dead rising from their graves. Amidst these claims, we know to be impossible, why would you accept them as true?

People do accept those claims are being axioms to their dogma.

There are many types of dogma. For example, some scientists believe the word "time" is imaginary just like the word "God":

There Is No Such Thing As Time

"If you try to get your hands on time, it's always slipping through your fingers," says Barbour. "People are sure time is there, but they can't get hold of it. My feeling is that they can't get hold of it because it isn't there at all."

Time is a lot of like the world God. You can't touch God. You can't touch Time. Religion as God as the one eternal everlasting concept. Science as Time as the one eternal everlasting concept. Which dogma is right? Just choose.

Choice as a distinction from decision is a very interesting idea. If you make a choice based on a reason it's not a choice. It is a decision. Decisions are based on reasons. Choices are made without reason. People choose axioms of their dogmas not based on reasons. This is why everyone else seems insane and why you are the only person tho has it right.

Just because a lot of people accept a claim, that does not make it true.

Time can be measured.

Choices are your available options. Decisions are actions when you pick your options.