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Athiests vs The Religious Conspiracy... Explain to Me Why Believers Believe.

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posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Religion is the most stupid? Out of human trafficking that is still occurring? The skave trade that is still occurring? Drug addiction and trafficking? Drug violence? Pedophilia? Oppressive governments based on communism or secularism?

I would say at this point, drug addiction and drug related violence is a close tie for death and suffering. And drug addiction and violence will probably surpass the damage caused by the manipulation of religion.




posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Those that truly try to break the bonds of materialism, know no human is worthy to make people bow before, and seek spirituality for healing of the soul are stupid?



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

I don't imagine many human traffickers place their confidence in anthropomorphized sky Gods with a massive inferiority complex against it's chosen creation.


I've been addicted to drugs myself for a while, back in my late teens and early 20s, can't say God made me see the light at the end of the tunnel, that was my choice. Unless predestination was screwing with my free will again.


Religion or at least organized religious practice is all about manipulation!

Do this or don't do that, or God, who apparently has the best intentions and loves you unconditionally, will spank you and condemn your soul to an eternal hellfire. If that's not being manipulative i don't know what is!

Drug addiction could be easily addressed by making them legal. You get taxes, you get quality control, you remove the criminal element and stigma associated with such. Simple really and can and should be done because let's face facts, alcohol, sugar, and tobacco, are just as bad if not far worse for us to consume and those are perfectly legal.

Just a thought.
edit on 6-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

You live and exist in a material world, deal with it.

We call it reality and chances are we will not be breaking the bonds of such any time soon.

Anyone the seeks knowledge is not stupid, but being able to distinguish the difference between your own personal journey through life, or spirituality (which is kind of what that amounts to) and/or being hoodwinked into believing that God will save you and the rest of humanity at some future date of his determination is a very different kettle of fish indeed.

Choose life buddy, coz for all intents and purpose, you might only get one.

That being said follow your own star mate, and don't let anyone tell you any different.



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: andy06shake

Those that truly try to break the bonds of materialism, know no human is worthy to make people bow before, and seek spirituality for healing of the soul are stupid?


There is not necessarily anything wrong with spirituality or belief in God/Gods.

However, many organized religions are dangerous. There are aspects of some of the world's organized religions that do (and have in the historical past) give rise to intolerance and extremism on the name of dogma, seemingly opposite to what any spiritual person would personally support.

So don't confuse with someone's personal spirituality and/or a belief in a higher power with the idea of organized religion. Those can be two totally separate things.


edit on 6/12/2017 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

And as long as they are two totally separate things there is no problem in my book. Personal spirituality and organized religious practice that is.


I don't discount the possibility of a creator, but if he/she/it requires our attendance(or monies
), it's not quite as omnipotent/omniscient as is made out to be by most organized religions that have been doing the rounds throughout recorded history.

Separate is exactly how we should choose to entertain our religious notions because let's face it, no priest or book would be required to commune with one's creator, simple prayer would suffice.

Its when people come together and organize in groups then attempt to force their religious ideologies on others for there own gains, agendas and motivations that cause the problems, that's where all the trouble begins really.
edit on 6-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

“Drug addiction could be easily addressed by making them legal. You get taxes, you get quality control, you remove the criminal element and stigma associated with such. Simple really and can and should be done because let's face facts, alcohol, sugar, and tobacco, are just as bad if not far worse for us to consume and those are perfectly legal.


That is probably about the most uneducated statement I have ever seen.

Really, meth, coc aine, heroin, prescription drug addiction and their devastating effects can be solved by legalization?

Do you know how many people die from prescription drugs alone.

Between 1999 and 2015, 180,000 people have died from prescription opioid overdose. I guess 1,000 a day go to the ER because of overdosing.
www.cdc.gov...


Then add in illegal drug use.



Overdose Death Rates

www.drugabuse.gov...

Drugs Involved in U.S. Overdose Deaths* - Among the more than 64,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2016, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with over 20,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER



And based on death rates, you are more likely to die in a traffic accident, or by your own hand committing suicide than by a violent act.

So, please tell me how religion is the biggest cause of suffering again?


edit on 6-12-2017 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

So now it’s wrong to seek the insight of a person that has spent their life dedicated to spiritual studies because they have the title preacher?

And why do you think the veil in the temple was torn in relation to Jesus’s death on the Cross?
edit on 6-12-2017 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: BStoltman

I guess you just never knew. I have always just known. My testimony won't change your mind. I can promise you that yours will not change mine. I imagine being an atheist is the easier of the two paths... I can only imagine how nice it must be to have an unburdened soul.



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: BStoltman

I guess you just never knew. I have always just known. My testimony won't change your mind. I can promise you that yours will not change mine. I imagine being an atheist is the easier of the two paths... I can only imagine how nice it must be to have an unburdened soul.

Personally, I'm agnostic. However, your comment makes me wonder why you feel that spirituality and/or a belief in a supreme being would necessarily be a personal burden?

What causes that burden?



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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I can point to the world and everything in it.
All the Heavens testify to his power and majesty.
Life comes only from life and sets the example for even the
worst of fools to observe. It is even impossible for anyone to say
God does not exist unless you are omniscent with
full knowledge of reality. For anyone to live a whopping
70 yrs on this planet at the most! And convince themselves
they know anything about reality? Anyone saying there is no God,
as if they know it to be true?

Is quite simply a liar.

What can an atheist point to and say God does not exist?
When I can point to Jesus Christ and say he does?



posted on Dec, 6 2017 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Not wrong just rather redundant if God is omniscient they no mediator is required.

Solomon's temple?

Was it not something to do with it Jesus dying on the cross and moving/torn curtains?


Suppose its symbol of his sacrifice but whats that got to do with whats right and wrong?

I don't have a problem with spiritual studies, i do have a few issues with titles and labels all the same.
edit on 6-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

The symbolic tearing of veil was that worship at the temple by a high priest and animals sacrifice was not need. Juses was the sacrifice and the way.

Some people are better at leading. Some better at serving. And some are better at understand God, so why not seek their wisdom.

So what defines what is good or evil. You as your own personal god? It’s easy to be good or evil in that context.

Sorry that life is a test. That you do have freewill, and it is up to you to choose. Is it wrong a person can choose good or evil?

And as repeatedly pointed out, what is the significance of man in the universe. Not much if it’s only material. War becomes meaningless. The fact one solar storm, comet, astroid, gamma ray burst from a distance star, or nuclear war could wipe man off the face of the earth?

Anyway? How did man come to love the beauty of art, the beauty of music, the beauty of the universe, so curious, invent beyond the natural world, love beyond lust, and sacrifice beyond reason? Exist beyond biological function?


Are you really address the topic anyway?

Athiests vs The Religious Conspiracy... Explain to Me Why Believers Believe

It seems that you believe in good and evil that is based on something outside the material world? Or is this really just it?

I agree that humans do manipulate religion for personal gain. But not any less or more than the military, nationalism, political party, financial institutions, banking system, the stock market, sulfur credits, trade, law enforcement, government, illegal trade.


Man is the common factor concerning corruption, not religion.
edit on 7-12-2017 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed.



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

"The symbolic tearing of veil was that worship at the temple by a high priest and animals sacrifice was not need. Juses was the sacrifice and the way."

I take it you mean Jesus as opposed to "Juses"? Like i said I'm not a preacher.

"Some people are better at leading. Some better at serving. And some are better at understand God, so why not seek their wisdom."

Sounds like some royalist rhetoric right there mate, seeking the wisdom of anyone that believes "some people are better at serving" is paramount to believing in indentured servitude and/or slavery. Then again our Bible and Koran kind of condone such practice or at least don't condemn the nefarious act of slavery.

"So what defines what is good or evil. You as your own personal god? It’s easy to be good or evil in that context."

Good and Evil are very Human constructs and nothing to do with God, perspective is the key really, whats good for one person may be evil to another or the rest.

"Sorry that life is a test. That you do have freewill, and it is up to you to choose. Is it wrong a person can choose good or evil?"

I would say its more of a game about acquiring experience but if free will is illusory then choice is rather a fickle beast at best.

"And as repeatedly pointed out, what is the significance of man in the universe. Not much if it’s only material. War becomes meaningless. The fact one solar storm, comet, astroid, gamma ray burst from a distance star, or nuclear war could wipe man off the face of the earth?"

Why assume we even have a placemark in the grand scheme of our universe, we might just not be that important.

"Anyway? How did man come to love the beauty of art, the beauty of music, the beauty of the universe, so curious, invent beyond the natural world, love beyond lust, and sacrifice beyond reason? Exist beyond biological function?"

You seem rather impressed with our achievements, but what has God painted or created that's beautiful? Certainly not Humanity that's for sure.

"Are you really address the topic anyway?"

I think so but let's have another go since you don't seem to be paying attention.

People believe because they are scared of the unknown and choose to create illusory anthropomorphized Sky Gods to protect and/or punish dependant on the situation.

God or our organized religious interpretation of such is either the monster under the bed or the imaginary friend that saves the day or takes the blame for your mistakes.
edit on 7-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

"That is probably about the most uneducated statement I have ever seen."

Really?

My degrees say Electonic & Electrical Engineering and the other Information & Media Technology. I had to study rather a lot more than just a Bible, and for rather a few years to gain said degrees, whats your claim to fame?


I'm not privy to your educational credentials, which are?

Uneducated my left bum cheek, i call it how i see it.

You call it how your Lord tells you so.
edit on 7-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

You seem to be the left brain engineering types I'm used to that don't seem to grasp the understanding of God. You are too linear. God is your savior and your power, You just don't seem to grasp it, yet.



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: thepixelpusher

I cant help what i am as apparently, just like yourself, we are created in Gods image.


To linear eh?

God, or at least our organized religious interpretations of such seems to be in the same predicament and limited to the very same linear space-time as ourselves, else where is he/she/it?

An absentee parent at best and genocidal megalomaniac with a massive inferiority complex at worst.

Depending on which version of Biblical text one is inclined to misplace there belief really.

Like i said, i will entertain the notion of a creator, just not one that requires our attendance, monies or adoration.
edit on 7-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Read the Bible to understand God and his way. You have picked up on the devils (fallen angels) explanation of God.



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: thepixelpusher

Ok Angels are apparently a tool of God and posses no freewill of there own. So how on "Earth" did 1/3 manage to rebel, decide to come to Earth and breed with our females?

Also, why would God not wish humanity to possess the knowledge of astronomy, metallurgy, or chemistry never mind the rest of the information these alleged Angels managed to bestow upon Humanity, what was he/she/it attempting to hide from us?

Seems to me these alleged Angels done nothing but help Humanity for which their reward was to be the complete and utter destruction of there race and Nephilim offspring, nevermind the flood that went with it that apparently wiped out the greater part of our own race and set us apart in language, creed, and race.

And the most obvious of question really is water toxic to angelic beings, as we seem to have prevailed and are still around to enjoy Yahwehs party.

edit on 7-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Man was granted Feewill by God, if you bothered to read the Bible. hence freewill to do as we please, including sin.



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