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Athiests vs The Religious Conspiracy... Explain to Me Why Believers Believe.

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posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 03:44 AM
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a reply to: thepixelpusher

Hitler believed in god. He had a very twisted kind of belief in god, but he wasn't an atheist. And according to Bullock he wasn't an occultist.




posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

He didn't seem to mind a bit of incest either think of Noah bad god or as the Hulk would say Puny god



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: neutronflux

Hey you have the wrong end of the stick it's not just the Christian Church ALL religion is BS does that make you happier



That is for you to choose. I believe in God, Jusus, and the Holy Spirit. That is faith. Not science. I hope to never bow down or warship a fellow human as in North Korea. My hope lies outside material earth. Nuff said about that.....


I used to believe in Santa Claus, The Bogeyman and other ficticious BS when I was young afterall my mother and father said they were real why would they lie to me get the point just because some guy in a funny uniform on your sabath day says there is a god doesn't mean there is, I worked that out when I was about 10 then when you factore in all the other different stories and god(s) around the world all with different creation stories etc that seals the deal.

No god just the laws of nature/universe.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
I really don't know which way i lean as to whether or not we possess a modicum of free will but i will say that should predestination also be the case as apparently, God has a plan, then free will must be illusory, one ideology not exactly being synonymous with the other.



Forgetting God for a moment in the argument of free will, let's consider quantum theory and the physics of subatomic particles in the universe.

There is still no agreement as to whether the quantum world is random or if there is some underlying set of rules (rules that we do not yet know of) that dictate the motions of subatomic particles. Physicists are still arguing this part of Quantum Theory, although the model now seems to be leaning towards randomness. However, let's assume for a moment that there is NO randomness, and that all particles DO abide by a set pf physical rules where their motions could in fact be determined (i.e., it is "Deterministic").

Now, if that were true, and all particles follow a strict set of rules by which their motions can be determined, then that would mean that all of the particles in the universe were set in a certain specific motion by the Big Bang, and those motions -- even today -- are what they are based on their original trajectories from the Big Bang + the strict set of rules that have guided those motions since then.

And when I say "all particles", that would include the particles that make up the neurons in your brain and your brain chemicals (the things that make you do what you do). Therefore, everything a person does, and everything everyone else -- and everything else -- does in the universe is determined by the original trajectories of the particles from the Big Bang + the strict set of rules that have guided those motions since then.

So if the quatum world does not have an underlying randomness and is instead deterministic, then we have no free will, The Universe (all particles withn it) is moving like a clockwork machine.



edit on 5/12/2017 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: neutronflux

Hey you have the wrong end of the stick it's not just the Christian Church ALL religion is BS does that make you happier



That is for you to choose. I believe in God, Jusus, and the Holy Spirit. That is faith. Not science. I hope to never bow down or warship a fellow human as in North Korea. My hope lies outside material earth. Nuff said about that.....


I used to believe in Santa Claus, The Bogeyman and other ficticious BS when I was young afterall my mother and father said they were real why would they lie to me get the point just because some guy in a funny uniform on your sabath day says there is a god doesn't mean there is, I worked that out when I was about 10 then when you factore in all the other different stories and god(s) around the world all with different creation stories etc that seals the deal.

No god just the laws of nature/universe.


That is your choice. I believe there is a spiritual side to man and life. I believe there is ultimate evil and supreme goodness. We have a spiritual soul not of the material world that appreciates music, beauty, love beyond lust, and sacrifice beyond logic. I believe a living being is a nexus of the physical and spiritual. There is a reason we are not inanimate objects.

So is AI alive? Are we to be supersede by AI, which might be the next stage of evolution.
edit on 5-12-2017 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed.

edit on 5-12-2017 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Yes the quantum realm does indeed seem to harbor some interesting conundrums, rather a "spooky" place really.


As to whether or not our macro universe is deterministic or otherwise, well constants such as Pi, Phi, and G seem to suggest some form of underlying rhyme and reason to the place.

That being said i don't really imagine humanity will ever possess the necessary tools or intellect required to explain the totality of our verse, given that we are a product of such.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

He didn't seem to mind a bit of incest either think of Noah bad god or as the Hulk would say Puny god

Not just incest. Incest rape. Lot's daughters got Lot drunk as a skunk then each had sex with him to get pregnant. Though in all fairness, Lot had earlier tried to give them away to an angry mob of rapists...



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Funny you did mention the obvious, the different houses of royalty across different cultures that basically inbred to keep the blood lines pure.

Or that inbreeding can prevent extinction. Example, the cheetah population was almost wiped out 10,000 years ago. Only inbreeding among the serving felines saved the species.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Or the arranged marriages across many different cultures.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Funny you did mention the obvious, the different houses of royalty across different cultures that basically inbred to keep the blood lines pure.

And? What's your point? Are arguing that was a good thing to do or something?


Or that inbreeding can prevent extinction. Example, the cheetah population was almost wiped out 10,000 years ago. Only inbreeding among the serving felines saved the species.

So are you trying to tell me that incest is morally just? I'm really confused at the point you are trying to make here.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Or the arranged marriages across many different cultures.

What about them?



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you don’t believe in God, then there is no evil or good. Just the morals of that culture.

No God, it’s just a biological process. Isn’t that your reality?



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Since there is no good or evil, you get to dictate what is moral from culture to culture?



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Society dictates its own morality.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neutronflux

Society dictates its own morality.


Then why bring up what happen thousands of years ago?



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

I brought up Lot because the poster I was responding to was discussing morality in the bible. I don't know why you brought up the things you did in response though.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:00 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: wmd_2008

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: neutronflux

Hey you have the wrong end of the stick it's not just the Christian Church ALL religion is BS does that make you happier



That is for you to choose. I believe in God, Jusus, and the Holy Spirit. That is faith. Not science. I hope to never bow down or warship a fellow human as in North Korea. My hope lies outside material earth. Nuff said about that.....


I used to believe in Santa Claus, The Bogeyman and other ficticious BS when I was young afterall my mother and father said they were real why would they lie to me get the point just because some guy in a funny uniform on your sabath day says there is a god doesn't mean there is, I worked that out when I was about 10 then when you factore in all the other different stories and god(s) around the world all with different creation stories etc that seals the deal.

No god just the laws of nature/universe.


That is your choice. I believe there is a spiritual side to man and life. I believe there is ultimate evil and supreme goodness. We have a spiritual soul not of the material world that appreciates music, beauty, love beyond lust, and sacrifice beyond logic. I believe a living being is a nexus of the physical and spiritual. There is a reason we are not inanimate objects.

So is AI alive? Are we to be supersede by AI, which might be the next stage of evolution.


You are like a christian creationist who thinks OBJECTS can evolve, it's the old if I had a pile of building materials would it eventually become a house or the parts of a watch would evolve into a watch.

You keep bringing up robots etc lets look at it this way if the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs 65m years ago didn't happen would there be dinosaurs typing away on the reptiweb on their ATS claiming that a lizard morphed briefly into a human on TV or King Rex and his family where really humans


What you stated above requires only time and probability NO god

edit on 5-12-2017 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Because nobody is writing additional Biblical books these days, the Vatican kind of frown upon anything they don't deem acceptable or that goes against "There" version of events.


What happened thousands of years ago is exactly whats in question.

And i will tell you this as the evidence suggests, or lack of evidence, it did not go down the way the Bible lays it out.

Fact of the matter is that Christianity, and the practices contained within are a collection of forebearer religions that pretty much goes all the way back to Sun worship.


edit on 5-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:04 AM
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Shortly...because they can, seems to suffice for me.



posted on Dec, 5 2017 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you don’t believe in God, then there is no evil or good. Just the morals of that culture.


That sounds about right. However, it seems that "the moral of the culture" has throughout human history fell back upon the basic idea of the Golden Rule (treat others the way you would want to be treated). There may be a few "subrules" that cary by culture and time, but fo the most part all morals are based on respect for humin life and rights.

Thta's not to say that a culture's morality at the time was truly moral. Take slavery, for example. It was "OK" by many cultures to own slaves. However, even within those cultures, there were people of higher morals who felt that slavery was wrong.

In that case, even though the morality of the culture allowed slavery, the deeper humanist morality -- an overarching natural morality that does not change due to cultural whims or by time -- abhors slavery because it breaks the Golden Rule.

As for "there is no good or evil", I'm not sure what you mean. People could act good or act evil -- with the definitions of "good" and "evil" being based on those deeper, natural, humanistic morals.

So again back to slavery...it might have been morally acceptable within Ancient Roman cultural moralities to keep slaves if you were an ancient Roman, but it was still evil to do so when looking at it from a humanistic morality standpoint.

You might be confusing "lawful" with "moral". Laws among other cultures can come from those overarching humanistic morals, but cultures seem to cherrypick which morals on which to base their laws. If a law allows something, that does not necessarily mean it's moral.


edit on 5/12/2017 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



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