Death of White Supremacy: 95 yrs ago TutanKhamun tomb was first opened by Archaeologists

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Letting the people have hope is a powerful way to motivate a slave crew. 

First off their hope did not derived from "white slave masters"
It was from real actions taken by former enslaved people who found a way out of that condition but more importantly they turned around and offered more than hope, they offered help, again reference the Negro spirituals.
From the abolitionist who applied public pressure to open warfare.

Herbert Aptheker), calculated that
over two hundred separate slave revolts and conspiracies took place from the 1600's to the end of the U.S. Civil War in 1865.

www.historyguy.com...-RXqA

The Stono Rebellion led to one of the largest and longest war on American soil that led to conflict with native Americans and Florida becoming a State, out of this came the Seminoles people.
The forgotten rebellion of the Black Seminole Nation.
www.peoplesworld.org...
So no !! black people weren't simply passively waiting for "white slave master" to grow a conscience and set them free, they took what ever path offered to them, including joining the British.

The thing I really want to figure out is this:


www.forbes.com... 37405

The income gap between black and white people has not shrunk since the Civil Rights movement. If anything it has grown.

If racism were to blame for the entirety of the gap, then it should get smaller after a while once the worst racist policies are removed. It shouldn't be growing.

Biological determinism stands out as offering the simplest explanation. But simpler isn't always better. Occam's Razor is just a rule of thumb. It's not an iron clad law.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Letting the people have hope is a powerful way to motivate a slave crew. 

First off their hope did not derived from "white slave masters"
It was from real actions taken by former enslaved people who found a way out of that condition but more importantly they turned around and offered more than hope, they offered help, again reference the Negro spirituals.
From the abolitionist who applied public pressure to open warfare.

If a statistically small number of slaves are regularly escaping, and allowing the rest of the population to know about it makes them more submissive and harder workers (because they think it's only for now, but someday they'll escape). Then on balance, it would serve the slavers interests to allow the stories to be told, even if they knew about it, and could suppress it.

There is a common saying that America is full of "temporarily poor millionaires". All the working people in this country think someday their business start up, or invention will pay off, or they'll win the lottery. And some do. The rest waste away where they are until retirement comes.

Back in the day, I imagine the plantations were full of "temporarily captive free men"

Herbert Aptheker), calculated that
over two hundred separate slave revolts and conspiracies took place from the 1600's to the end of the U.S. Civil War in 1865.

www.historyguy.com...-RXqA

The Stono Rebellion led to one of the largest and longest war on American soil that led to conflict with native Americans and Florida becoming a State, out of this came the Seminoles people.
The forgotten rebellion of the Black Seminole Nation.
www.peoplesworld.org...
So no !! black people weren't simply passively waiting for "white slave master" to grow a conscience and set them free, they took what ever path offered to them, including joining the British.

For statistical observations of a large group, typically nothing goes all the way down to zero.

At the time of the Civil War there were nearly 4 million slaves. Also the number of free black people was 476,748. This means that more than 10% of the black population was free. (There are 42 million black people in America now.)

www.civil-war.net...

On the other hand, at the time of the second Seminole ware, the Seminole Tribe in Florida that fought in it was about 4,000 people, of whom 1,600 were combatants.

Those are big and small numbers, respectively.

But no matter how strong the selection was or wasn't, slavery's effect on Darwinian selection wouldn't be any larger than Christianity's selection in the WASP population, selecting toward gullibility. Or Medieval armor types creating a selection toward broad shoulders in the male population of Europe.

Probably the biggest selection would be in who arrived in the first place. Rich people don't usually become slaves with the same frequency as poor people, and rich people tend to have a higher IQ. So if only poor people are getting sent over as slaves, we would be encountering people with lower IQ than the average for their nations of origin.

Is it enough of a difference to determine outcomes? I don't know. Maybe not.

On your other thread, I had suggested that maybe Affirmative Action is causing more harm than good, by making it too much trouble to deal with employees who enjoy its protections. Causing them frequently to not be hired.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If racism were to blame for the entirety of the gap, then it should get smaller after a while once the worst racist policies are removed. It shouldn't be growing. 

Biological determinism stands out as offering the simplest explanation. But simpler isn't always better. Occam's Razor is just a rule of thumb. It's not an iron clad law. 

Being poor is not exclusive to just Racism in the income gap, bad habits also counts, although " you" yourself said that companies are less willing to hire Blacks for other reasons than blatant racism.

Second most Whites have had a long head start, however may I remind you of the so-called model minority Blacks and others that came after the civil rights acts that outstrip just about everyone else including their white neighbours, they came better educated, and sometime with money and support from the home country, they tend to do better than a lot of poor white folks whose ancestors goes generations deep ,who started off poor and dusty 200 plus yrs ago, but with out the disadvantage of being slaves and social pariah still remained poor and dusty today, like the equally poor and dusty African descendant folks who did have those massive disadvantages, if as you say there is something to this biological determinism, then generations of broke dusty white folks should not exist..there should be no such thing called white poverty, but we both know that's not how it is.

Lemme just say this, cycles of poverty can be long lasting and hard to brake free of no matter who, and I'm not taking a piss on poor white folks, but environment have a lot to do with it.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

If racism were to blame for the entirety of the gap, then it should get smaller after a while once the worst racist policies are removed. It shouldn't be growing. 

Biological determinism stands out as offering the simplest explanation. But simpler isn't always better. Occam's Razor is just a rule of thumb. It's not an iron clad law. 

Being poor is not exclusive to just Racism in the income gap, bad habits also counts, although " you" yourself said that companies are less willing to hire Blacks for other reasons than blatant racism.

Second most Whites have had a long head start, however may I remind you of the so-called model minority Blacks and others that came after the civil rights acts that outstrip just about everyone else including their white neighbours, they came better educated, and sometime with money and support from the home country, they tend to do better than a lot of poor white folks whose ancestors goes generations deep ,who started off poor and dusty 200 plus yrs ago, but with out the disadvantage of being slaves and social pariah still remained poor and dusty today, like the equally poor and dusty African descendant folks who did have those massive disadvantages,

For example: Barack Obama.

if as you say there is something to this biological determinism, then generations of broke dusty white folks should not exist..there should be no such thing called white poverty, but we both know that's not how it is.

White poverty might also be biologically determined for that population sub-group.

If determinism is a real thing, then race lines would be just one of many deterministic lines and/or groupings that could determine something.

Some of the other deterministic groupings might be stronger. Probably some of them are.

Lemme just say this, cycles of poverty can be long lasting and hard to brake free of no matter who, and I'm not taking a piss on poor white folks, but environment have a lot to do with it.

Probably nutrition affects it a lot. Poor nutrition is often cited as explaining the lower test scores in sub-sahara Africa, and I'd say that holds up better to scrutiny that the default "cultural bias" argument.

The nurture vs. nature question is a broad question for me. I'm not just concerned about whether racial groupings have it. Also population groups in general and even family lines.

There is a push toward getting everyone to go to college, but I'm wondering if maybe that's a bad direction to place all our hopes? Having been in college I met quite a lot of people who lack the intelligence to do things like Chemical Engineering, or nuclear physics. People who openly admitted this.

Were they born that way? Or could a different childhood have made them intelligent enough?

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

White poverty might also be biologically determined for that population sub-group. 

If determinism is a real thing, then race lines would be just one of many deterministic lines and/or groupings that could determine something

This is the thing though, we are not different races or sub races within each social group, I bet if you took a child from a group of poor folks from anywhere, gave him or her a nourishing environment you would see a sea change, yes individual ambition may determine what that individual may end up doing , but success in whatever they do is likely.

Case in point, Chicago inner city neighborhoods a by word for all that's wrong with black America.. Forgetting for a second that doesn't represent all or even most AA communities, but I digress, kids randomly entered into Urban Prep.

CHICAGO - Students at Urban Prep are making Chicago proud. For the eight year 100 percent of the school's seniors have been admitted to college.
abc7chicago.com...

They still live in the same neighborhoods , still face that hostile environment, but for as long as their school day is ,they are in a nurturing positive environment , high expectations and performance are demanded of them, there are other such prep in Inglewood California that mirror the same success rates.
This need to be replicated across the board.

Forgot to add are no affirmative action babies, or sports grants, this is scholastic grants and entries.