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NEWS: Castro Warns Chavez That His Life is in Danger

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posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
................
I just want a littler of more respect. I can get sources from areas you can not imagine.

But we just have to wait and see about Chavez, if he is for real or just a dictator in the making like you said.

Have a good night.


Alright, i see what you are saying...but you have to understand how "those latinos' that lived under a dictator" feel like when there is another dictator in the making, and one who says castro is a mentor and an example for his whole country....

Marg, when there is confirmation from so many sources and even from inside Venezuela you can't deny what is happening there...

Did you actually see what the Venezuelan government officials did when they saw this "brown woman" talking to the reporter and saying she was not happy with Chavez?... i gave the link twice.... This is not happening just to one woman Marg... she was talking normally, she did not even raise her voice like the other people were doing....

Marg a 1.2 million to 2 million people march against Chavez is a lot of people... According to pro-Chavez sources nearly two million people were marching for Chavez....


Nearly two million people took to the streets in Caracas on Saturday in support of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Saturday, and they also rejected the general strike call by the opposition.


Excerpted from.
english.people.com.cn...

Yet, there was the longest work stoppage in Venezuela by regular people demonstrating against Chavez which paralized the country...

castro is another one who says most Cubans are in favor of him....but i think you know better than that, don't you?... Millions of Cubans have left the country and many hundreds of thousands have died trying to get out of Cuba..... Marg... Chavez boasts that castro is not only his friend..... can you understand that? for him castro is an example..... Chavez also has been known to speak in admiration of assasins like Che Guevara......He was a freaking communist assasin...he was an executioner of fidel castro which has been glorified for the good of the revolution.......meaning for the good of communism...that is "la revolucion".....

One of my uncles was a captain in fidel's army, when people were still believing in what castro was saying, but then when he realized what castro really wanted he turned with many other officers against castro and che, my uncle spent 30 years in prison for realizing too late what fidel and che wanted to do....and what they were doing to the people...

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]




posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
BS.... when has Bush taken over all private media because they oppose him?... or when has he said he will take over the media because of their opposition?...

Bush has found an easier way. He just pays the media to say what he wants. Unfortunately he's been caught red-handed several times at this.



When has any U.S. citizen been taken by government agents when they were just talking to the press about why they won't vote for Bush?....

How the heck should I know? The patriot act allows for the handling of anyone deemed a terrorist with zero transparency. They could come get me tomorrow and nobody would have any legal right to know anything about it.


You are obviously out of your mind to even say that Bush has done what Chavez is doing....

You're absolutely right. Bush has done nothing for his country's medical and education systems.


Has Bush taken over private companies and make them part of the state?...

It's all a matter of how you phrase it my friend. No Bush has not toppled any politically powerful economic machines in the interest of worker's rights. Instead he has invited business criminals into the government and worked against the rights of the working class.


Has president Bush taken over private lands and make them part of the state?....

No, Bush prefers to open up Federally protected areas to corporate exploitation.


You are really out of your mind....

I hear that so much it's lost all meaning.


You seem to be the typical Bush supporter- you think he beyond question no matter what, and that everyone else is an evil anti-american player in the commie terrorist conspiracy. Is that it? I on the other hand accept that other nations don't have to follow America's way of doing things to be decent people, and I believe that America has to respect their sovreignity.
I want the truth, you need the lies. Suit yourself; denial is an answer. I'd like to be in denial about what is going on in this country too.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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Well Muaddib the truth can not be hide, is propaganda on what the Chavez government is doing and is negative, also, yes you always going to have abuses in any country even here in the US you have protest and onces in a while gets out of hand also with the police.

And that is part of been in a free country.

But when Chavez government is hated by everybody but his people you always going to get propaganda especially when is higher interest on the government out side Venezuela.

here is what I found on two of the people in the post.

I believe the first search on Alesksander Boyd,

He goes around other country promoting a negative view of Bolivarian view, he was not well received in Vienna during a visit he did to promote the coup of Venezuela, it seems that the young Venezuelan exiles did not agree with the destabilization of Venezuela that a coup was to bring. He also calls for violence against the Chavez administration.


www.marxist.com...

Actually he even was against of Carmona too. Funny.



Based upon information obtained today by Axis of Logic, it appears that Mr. Coronel, obtained his job from Mr. Naim. Mr. Coronel claims to be a resident of Venezuela 90% of his time, but also works in opposition to the Venezuelan government and is funded by this U.S. institution in Washington, D.C. Also, it is not lost on us that Venezuela is among the top 4 oil producers in the world and has fallen in disfavor with the U.S. government.



It’s seems that Mr. Coronel works for a US magazine.
Gustavo Coronel has joined US Foreign Policy as Director of Corporate Programs and will be traveling extensively in Latin America and to other regions putting together special reports for FPM and its sponsors.

www.axisoflogic.com...

About the women brown skinned Chavez is a mestizo and you know what that means.

So I really don't think that skin has anything to do with the incident.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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Well it seems that Chavez is cracking down on the ones that are sabotaging the country resources as in the oil.

Just like in Iraq is always the ones that will do anything to make the government look bad and that will do anything even depriving their fellow citizens from the profits of their country resources.

He is also cracking on the the people involve on the coup.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Bush has found an easier way. He just pays the media to say what he wants. Unfortunately he's been caught red-handed several times at this.


Really? where is the proof?...... reliable links please.....


Originally posted by The Vagabond
How the heck should I know? The patriot act allows for the handling of anyone deemed a terrorist with zero transparency. They could come get me tomorrow and nobody would have any legal right to know anything about it.


Are you a terrorist? have you been part of any terrorist organization? if you are then you should worry if you are not what the heck does it have to do with you?....




Originally posted by The Vagabond
You're absolutely right. Bush has done nothing for his country's medical and education systems.


Let's see...


Steele: Bush has done
more for blacks
The President brought tax cuts,
school reform, entrepreneurism

Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele talks about the presidential election, during a gathering of Republicans in Annapolis, Md. in March.


Excerpted from.
www.msnbc.msn.com...




Originally posted by The Vagabond
It's all a matter of how you phrase it my friend. No Bush has not toppled any politically powerful economic machines in the interest of worker's rights. Instead he has invited business criminals into the government and worked against the rights of the working class.


Has he taken your private property?.... Did he claim the private property of anyone in here and made these properties part of the state allowing people who are in welfare to live in your home?



Originally posted by The Vagabond
No, Bush prefers to open up Federally protected areas to corporate exploitation.


explotation?....you mean giving more jobs to people in the states?.....



Originally posted by The Vagabond
You seem to be the typical Bush supporter- you think he beyond question no matter what, and that everyone else is an evil anti-american player in the commie terrorist conspiracy. Is that it?


On the contrary, i do not agree with everything president Bush does, but i call it as i see it.... i don't think that everyone that is not Republican is "an evil anti-American"....but i do know that many people don't see who has taken control over the left... or where most of the ideas from the left comes from... you can see it from what people in these same forums are saying....


Originally posted by The Vagabond
I want the truth, you need the lies. Suit yourself; denial is an answer. I'd like to be in denial about what is going on in this country too.


In denial about what? that liberals couldn't get more than a few thousand people to protest against the president at the inauguration when over 260,000 people who were pro Bush were present even thou it was cold as hell outside?.... i know it was cold, although i am used to the climate, because i was there, yet more people that are pro Bush were there than people from the left....

If there was any truth to what the left is claiming many more would have gone to the inauguration, yet they didn't... Or are you going to tell us now that president Bush sent soldiers to most liberals's homes so they would stay in house arrest while the inauguration lasted?....


Keep believing in the lies from the left....i'll keep looking at everything that is presented and make my own mind...


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Marg, first of all look at the first link you gave.... and look at what it says in it's main page... in defense of Marxism


The aim of this website is to defend Marxist ideas and their validity for today’s labour movement. To find out more, contact us.


Excerpted from.
www.marxist.com...

Wonder why this website would be pro-Chavez.....

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Actually that site did shows Marxism in the bottom but I took notice of the news and disregard the bottom of the page. It does not bothers me a bit.

It means nothing only for somebody on an agenda an I am not. Are you?

It's good sometimes to read everything and stay bias of what you read or you will never get to learn something new. It's good to step out of the box sometimes.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Bush has found an easier way. He just pays the media to say what he wants. Unfortunately he's been caught red-handed several times at this.


Really? where is the proof?...... reliable links please.....


The Bush's department of eduaction paid about a quarter of a million dollars to Armstrong Williams to boost No Child Left Behind. Maybe it was one indiscretion, maybe it's the tip of the iceburg. Either way there's your precious Bush administration interfering with media coverage of government policies.

www.usatoday.com...




Are you a terrorist? have you been part of any terrorist organization? if you are then you should worry if you are not what the heck does it have to do with you?....

It doesn't matter if I was Osama Bin Laden. If Osama held US citizenship he would be entitled to due process, except of course under the patriot act.
Doesn't the "it's not for you" attitude seem dangerous to you anyway? Oh don't worry Fritz, Der Fuhrer says the camps in the East are only for the Jews, and its just a relocation- they will be OK. Of course the camps were not really just for the jews. Union men, catholics, gays, and others all got their turn as well.
You don't say anything when they take the people from an Islamic charity, because you think they're terrorists and you're not. You don't say anything when they misapply anti-terrorism laws to other criminals, because they are gang members and you're not. You may not even say anything when they do it to Union men on a picket line, because they were an unruly mob, and you're not. But when they come for you, there's not gonna be much of anybody left to say anything.





Let's see...

Steele: Bush has done
more for blacks
The President brought tax cuts,
school reform, entrepreneurism

Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele talks about the presidential election, during a gathering of Republicans in Annapolis, Md. in March.

Excerpted from.
www.msnbc.msn.com...


Red herring. I don't want to hear what Bush has done right any more than you want to hear what Chavez has done right. Bush has done a lot of stuff wrong- some of it when taken from a certain point of view looks every bit as totalitarian as your skewed analysis of Chavez' actions.




Has he taken your private property?.... Did he claim the private property of anyone in here and made these properties part of the state allowing people who are in welfare to live in your home?

Why are you so afraid to admit that Bush has done wrong? Why must you stick to the extremely narrow interpretation to pretend that Bush is innocent? You keep asking questions that basically add up to "is bush a communist". I reply NO, he's a fascist!
Bush took federally protected lands that by all rights are part mine since my tax dollars helped set them aside and preserve them, and he wants to hand them over to his rich friends in the oil industry, including the Bin Laden family.



Originally posted by The Vagabond
No, Bush prefers to open up Federally protected areas to corporate exploitation.


explotation?....you mean giving more jobs to people in the states?.....


How interesting. Bush's land grab was OK because it protected the working class from poverty? I'll make a Chavez supporter out of you yet!




On the contrary, i do not agree with everything president Bush does, but i call it as i see it....

You have a right to your views, but if you really see things this way my humble opinion is that you need to get your eyes checked.


but i do know that many people don't see who has taken control over the left... or where most of the ideas from the left comes from... you can see it from what people in these same forums are saying....


So what you're saying is that you don't think everyone who isn't republican is an evil commie bastard, yet you imply that the entire leftwing spectrum has been overtaken by communists?



In denial about what? that liberals couldn't get more than a few thousand people to protest against the president at the inauguration when over 260,000 people who were pro Bush were present even thou it was cold as hell outside?....

You claim there were 260,000 people there for Bush but only a couple thousand against him. So you argue that this country favors Bush at a rate of something like 26:1 at least? How do you explain that roughly half the country voted against Bush? You can twist the facts all you want, but Bush does not have the overwhelming majority that you claim- although I am not one of those who denies that he did have a thin majority for a change this time.
This reminds me of something else. The loathsome dictator Chavez was also democratically elected, yet you claim that he is heavily opposed just because when somebody holds a protest rally only his opponents show up? That was to be expected! When a rally is held, the supporters of the rally are almost always in the majority at that even. Your ignorance of that fact could lead one to believe that the KKK held a huge majority in many places. Afterall, who shows up to a Klan rally? Supporters right!




Keep believing in the lies from the left....i'll keep looking at everything that is presented and make my own mind...
[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]


What lies from the left? I watch Fox News Channel and read ATSNN. I research issues that I care about from time to time and apply my ability to reason, and that is why I reject the conservative viewpoint (which is often the one I am first presented with by the news media). I don't need some liberal nutjob telling me whats what; I can reject the conservative nutjobs all on my own without leaning on leftwing insanity.
It boggles the mind that there are so few people who are willing to pick and choose their beliefs from both sides- people just pick a party and vote it across the board. What ignorance.


EDIT to fix quoting errors.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by The Vagabond]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by The Vagabond]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Really...despite the fact that a great majority of people have demonstrated against him?....and want him out?......

Don't you think 1.2-2 million people is quite a gathering?....


Chavez was placed back in power by the people of Venezuela.
When a vote to recall him was held, the people voted to keep him in power.
That election was monitored by International monitors and the results matched the pre-election polls so it was legit and it proves the majority of people want him to run the country.

BTW, There were a half a million protesting against Bush at a gathering last year:
www.unitedforpeace.org...

Perhaps he should be ousted from power.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by thehamsamiam
When Castro started the revolution he wanted to oust a corrupt and oppressive dictator.


That oppressive dictator as some called it made democracy possible in Cuba....

Cuba was a jewel in the caribbean and in many ways it surpassed the US at the time. There were more people in Cuba who had tvs and owned a car than in the US...and people could feed their families, something that now, and even some years after fidel took control of Cuba, people go hungry for days and even weeks because there is no food. Most of the food that is harvested in Cuba is exported to make castro and his communists richer...


Batista?
The guy who achieved power through a Coup and was opposed by the people of Cuba?
He may have given freedom to Cubans at one point but he then took it all away again.


PBS.org
Plagued by Corruption
For the next twelve years Cuba enjoyed democracy, and free elections. But it was a democracy marred by corruption and political violence -- the work of "action groups" or gangs who shot their way through politics at the University of Havana and on the city streets. When in March 1952, Batista, in a coup d'etat, destroyed the democratic republic he had brought into existence, the stage was set for revolution. "Batista's coup opened a Pandora's box," explained writer Carlos Alberto Montaner. "Institutions no longer mattered. What mattered was audacity, the individual capable of violent action." That individual turned out to be a daring young lawyer named Fidel Castro.

Era of Change
Fidel Castro in jeep with soldiers, victorious over Fulgencio Batista Between 1952 and 1958, Cubans from all walks of life -- students, businessmen, mothers, politicians -- united in opposition against Batista. Author Carlos Alberto Montaner describes the mood: "the talk was about democracy, freedom and respect for human rights; the... objective was to restore the rule of law that had been swept aside by Batista."

Hopes for Honest Government
Even Castro -- a dynamic national figure following his failed Moncada assault of 1953 -- spoke in those terms. "Not Communism or Marxism is our idea. Our political philosophy is representative democracy and social justice in a well-planned economy." Many wealthy Cubans welcomed Castro's rebel triumph in January 1959.


EDIT: Another link on Batista, www.historyofcuba.com...

[edit on 14-2-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Marg, first of all look at the first link you gave.... and look at what it says in it's main page... in defense of Marxism


The aim of this website is to defend Marxist ideas and their validity for today’s labour movement. To find out more, contact us.


Excerpted from.
www.marxist.com...

Wonder why this website would be pro-Chavez.....

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]


Pro-marxist sources are inherently wrong, and site which supports Chavez is pro-marxist, therefore it is impossible for any legitimate source to support Chavez. Is that what you're saying? Deny circular logic my friend.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Actually that site did shows Marxism in the bottom but I took notice of the news and disregard the bottom of the page. It does not bothers me a bit.

It means nothing only for somebody on an agenda an I am not. Are you?

It's good sometimes to read everything and stay bias of what you read or you will never get to learn something new. It's good to step out of the box sometimes.


Marg, it means they have an agenda towards Marxism......

So, yes, it does matter. Unless you like the Marxist agenda.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
BTW, There were a half a million protesting against Bush at a gathering last year:
www.unitedforpeace.org...

Perhaps he should be ousted from power.


Really? according to the previous announcements by the orginizers there were over 400,000 people. That first second... Where were they at the inauguration?.... They suddenly dissapeared?.....

You will need more than 400,000-500,000 people to claim that most of the people in the states don't want president Bush in power Ace....

At the inauguration it was cold as heck, so a lot of people stayed home...but are you saying that more anti-Bush people stayed at home than pro-Bush people?....


Police did not give a crowd estimate but organizers claimed the demonstration attracted "over 400,000" people.


The orginizers seem to like to exagerate the numbers....don't they?...

BTW, let's see some of the things the demonstrators were trying to say.





Humm...jesus was a socialist....and anti-imperialism... who would say such things?....



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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And still no explanation of why half the country voted against Bush, even as we are lectured on how the predictably pro-bush turnout at a pro-bush event obvious demonstrates the overwhelming majority support he enjoys?

Reminds me of a few lines from a subliminal message I found hidden in a few frames of a DVD... "Bombs keep us free... beLIEve what you are told... you want truth but you need lies... Money is the root of all freedom"

Nevermind what DVD I found that in... it wasn't exactly a family film if you know what i mean.


EDIT: By the way, Jesus was more or less a socialist. Unlike modern evangelists he did not acquire tons of wealth or engage in any capitalist ventures. I'm not saying that Jesus necessarily was exclusively a promoter of socialism, I'm just saying that a lot of stuff Jesus A. did not engage in. B. would not approve of gets carried out in the name of capitalism.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by The Vagabond]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Marg, it means they have an agenda towards Marxism......

So, yes, it does matter. Unless you like the Marxist agenda.


Well I still like democracy, and Carl Marx was the father of communism but I don't think that the views of Carl Marx at the time is what we can call today the modern communism.

Now the same way that our fore fathers views of the republic is what we to day hold in the US.



[edit on 14-2-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Let's compare the populations of Venezuela and the US....


Venezuela
Population:
25,017,387 (July 2004 est.)


Excerpted from.
www.cia.gov...


United States
Population:
293,027,571 (July 2004 est.)


Excerpted from.
www.cia.gov...

Let's see...Venezuela's population is a bit over 25 million, and they were able to get 2 million protesters against Chavez and 2 million protesters in favor of Chavez.

The US with a population of almost 300 million, during the inauguration, a time when it should have gathered more pro and anti Bush people...the protesters were able to gather...around 10,000 according to some estimates while pro-Bush people were able to gather about 260,000, last i heard when I was in Washington.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

EDIT: By the way, Jesus was more or less a socialist. Unlike modern evangelists he did not acquire tons of wealth or engage in any capitalist ventures. I'm not saying that Jesus necessarily was exclusively a promoter of socialism, I'm just saying that a lot of stuff Jesus A. did not engage in. B. would not approve of gets carried out in the name of capitalism.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by The Vagabond]


Actually not according to what i learnt in Spain as i was brought up as a catholic. i still remember that Jesus said, according to the bible, he didn't come to bring down any governments, or to set up any governments. (More or less something along those lines)

Meaning he wasn't promoting and he wasn't an anarchist, a communist or a socialist, neither was he a Republican, a libertarian, or any other group that is interested in an agenda.



[edit on 14-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
And still no explanation of why half the country voted against Bush, even as we are lectured on how the predictably pro-bush turnout at a pro-bush event obvious demonstrates the overwhelming majority support he enjoys?
..............


Half the country did not vote against Bush.... Less than half of those registered voters who voted, did vote against president Bush.....

So it was not half of the population, or even half of the people who voted....



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:23 PM
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Anyways, back to Venezuela. This is a country that is truly split in half, or so.

I feel sad that the country is being taken over by "castro the second"...



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Muaddib, you have consistently ignored the point of my posts and dogmatically asserted points that you have not supported against reasonable challenges.

Bottom line, Kerry got 48-49 percent of the vote- Bush does NOT have an overwhelming majority. You claim that he does because of the turnout at a pro-bush event. That's ridiculous.
Try this on for size- how many Eagles fans went to the Patriots' victory party after the superbowl? Does that mean that the overwhelming majority of fans wanted the Patriots to win?

You continue to assert that just because the protesters made more noise that they represent the majority of Venezuelans (and you make an excellent point that demonstrators LOVE to lie about their numbers).
If Chavez is so unpopular why did he win moitored elections and monitored recall vote? Why did the people restore him after the coup?

Why do you continue to assert a doule standard whereby you attempt to brand Chavez a Stalinist without acknowledging that such criteria would make Bush a fascist?

On the tangent point about Jesus, I explicitly said that Jesus did not promote socialism. My point is that Jesus did not live as a capitalist and capitalism has begotten many practices that Jesus would not approve of. Didn't Jesus tell his disciples that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?




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