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NEWS: Castro Warns Chavez That His Life is in Danger

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posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by thehamsamiam
When Castro started the revolution he wanted to oust a corrupt and oppressive dictator.


That oppressive dictator as some called it made democracy possible in Cuba....

Cuba was a jewel in the caribbean and in many ways it surpassed the US at the time. There were more people in Cuba who had tvs and owned a car than in the US...and people could feed their families, something that now, and even some years after fidel took control of Cuba, people go hungry for days and even weeks because there is no food. Most of the food that is harvested in Cuba is exported to make castro and his communists richer...

I have already posted a link from a Cuban phd who had information on his website on how Cuba and it's people were doing before castro....

Here is the link again....

www.nocastro.com...

This is an excerpt from the link.


The following information is taken from the INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF JURISTS - GENEVA, which is a non-governmental organization and has Consultive Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council. There is not a single Cuban citizen belonging to this Commission, but is represented by 41 law makers from different nations of the world. It was written in 1961. The book, now out of circulation by Castro´s regime is called CUBA AND THE RULE OF LAW.



---edited to add comment---



[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]




posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Well Duzey we all know that Castro days are outnumbered and that his regimes is at its end, Chavez is pulling the US leg when he goes against everything that the US despised.

What will anybody will do when you a powerful nation as US trying to overthrow the will of the people in a small country like Venezuela.

But at the end Chavez better be careful because his macho demeanor is going to have him kill.

And it will no be by his own people.


I agree, Castro's days are numbered.

I also agree that Chavez is making a pretty big mistake on his choice of friends. In this day and age, it is not wise to become the perceived enemy of the US.

The US government did kind of bring this on themselves. By trying to remake the country in their best interests, and trying to overthrow his government, they started it. If they had supported a fledging democracy and helped them along the path, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, macho is not the best attitude to be pulling, but I look at it this way. The US has left him with little choice. They tried to overthrow his government, and make threatening statements in public. Of course he’s not fond of them. The US should be trying to improve relations in this area, not making them worse. Diplomacy is a much better option in this case, I think.

The Japanese culture has an interesting traditional of allowing your opponent to 'save face'. Basically, you allow them to let others think it was their idea and let them maintain their dignity. You also give them something in return, so they do not appear weak. Or something along those lines. This may be a good method to employ.

There is no reason this has to become ugly, it can be resolved. Dimplomacy could work wonders with this situation. The US just needs to accept the fact that he is the democratically elected President of the country, and work from there.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
.................
There is no reason this has to become ugly, it can be resolved. Dimplomacy could work wonders with this situation. The US just needs to accept the fact that he is the democratically elected President of the country, and work from there.


Really...despite the fact that a great majority of people have demonstrated against him?....and want him out?......

Don't you think 1.2-2 million people is quite a gathering?....

How many people were demonstrating in the Ukraine against the rigged elections there?....


• Hundreds of thousands of people demonstrate in most major cities of Ukraine. Protests against the rigged elections of Oct. 31 and Nov. 21 are taking place all over Ukraine.


Excerpted from.
www.ucu.edu.ua...

Venezuela is also a country where most people, even those who some here are calling "white rich folks"... do not have a car, like most people in the US.....

Most of these people went walking from around the capital to protest against Chavez... 1.2-2 million people against Chavez....quite a gathering huh?.....

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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That oppressive dictator as some called it made democracy possible in Cuba....

Cuba was a jewel in the caribbean and in many ways it surpassed the US at the time. There were more people in Cuba who had tvs and owned a car than in the US...and people could feed their families, something that now, and even some years after fidel took control of Cuba, people go hungry for days and even weeks because there is no food. Most of the food that is harvested in Cuba is exported to make castro and his communists richer...

I have already posted a link from a Cuban phd who had information on his website on how Cuba and it's people were doing before castro....

Here is the link again....

www.nocastro.com...

This is an excerpt from the link.


The following information is taken from the INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF JURISTS - GENEVA, which is a non-governmental organization and has Consultive Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council. There is not a single Cuban citizen belonging to this Commission, but is represented by 41 law makers from different nations of the world. It was written in 1961. The book, now out of circulation by Castro´s regime is called CUBA AND THE RULE OF LAW.



I am no expert in Cuba, I thought the guy before castro was a tyrant or I was taught that by some pinko teacher in school years ago. All i can say is the day that dickhead dies Cuba will have those things again. They had alot of Mob money in those days and I think it was more kennedy's hatered of the Mobsters that got him the oval office then losing cuba to the USSR and Castro. If it wern't for castro Vegas never would have become as big as it is today. Atlantic city would still be a dump but a casinoless dump. So who knows. My question is not only about castro. When a man starts a revolution to oust a king or another dictator at what point does he turn from revolutionary/freedom fighter to dictator. There has been more like castro and Stalin in our world history then like George Washington.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Really...despite the fact that a great majority of people have demonstrated against him?....and want him out?......


The same thing could be said of your country.

I will again pose these questions to you, since you ignored them the last time. What would happen to these protestors if they lived in Cuba? Or would they even be allowed to gather?

edited to add: Doh! You sucked me in that time, I said I wouldn't respond to you. Next time I will try for better impulse control.

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey

There is no reason this has to become ugly, it can be resolved. Diplomacy could work wonders with this situation. The US just needs to accept the fact that he is the democratically elected President of the country, and work from there.


Yes I agree with you, now let's remember that after Chavez won his elections and became the rightful leader of his country, he was assault by a coup, that later happened to be link by another country.

What it makes it worst is that person to take Chavez place was a rich business man that is also friends with our president's father.

Will you after having your own people taking matter in his hands and putting you in power again, will you still be friends with the bush administration?

I think diplomacy would not be the choice at the moment.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I think diplomacy would not be the choice at the moment.


No, I don't think it's very high up on either sides list, at the moment.

The situation is so volatile, and there's no trust on either side. But maybe with third-party intervention and a slightly more tolerant, hands-off policy, over time improvements could be made.

Of course I think we both know that's not going to happen anytime in the near future.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey

I will again pose these questions to you, since you ignored them the last time. What would happen to these protestors if they lived in Cuba? Or would they even be allowed to gather?

edited to add: Doh! You sucked me in that time, I said I wouldn't respond to you. Next time I will try for better impulse control.


I think i did mention what would happen before. Those in a protest against castro would lose their job, would never be able to get other jobs, which all jobs are through the state, and the leaders of the protests along with some others would probably find themselves in jail, among other things that would happen to them.


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
I think i did mention what would happen several times. Those in a protest against castro would lose their job, would never be able to get other jobs, which all jobs are through the state, and the leaders of the protests along with some others would probably find themselves in jail.


Then, I think that at this point in time, the fact that demonstrations of these size are allowed shows that Venezuela is not following every example set by Castro. I am reserving judgement on the situation.

OK, I admit it, I have very low impluse control


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Vagabond...all those points have already been covered....

Tell us exactly why Rumsfeld shaked hands with Saddam, and do tell us what is the procedure that all diplomats take when they are visiting and talk to presidents and other diplomats around the world....


Very interesting. So whem Rumsfeld is nice to Saddam he's just being a good diplomat, but when Chavez is nice to Castro he's not just sweet talking an important economic ally, but is seriously planning to do the things Castro has done. Nevermind that Chavez has shown NO sign of comitting the offenses against his people which Castro has been guilty of.
And lets not forget exactly WHY the US was dealing with Iraq back when Rumsfeld got his picture taken with good ol' Saddam. We were selling weapons to a nation which had initiated a war of conquest with its neighbor! I don't see Chavez attacking anybody.

You miss the pont entirely when you attempt to defend against the thin connections and things taken out of context. The entire point is that if all of these horrible things people say about the Bush administration are mistakes or misinterpretations, how is it that you can somehow devine the motives of Hugo Chavez and attack him in EXACTLY the same way that Bush Bashers attack your favorite president?



BTW...did i forget to mention that we were attacked,.....
[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]

Very well, there was an laughably small terrorist threat from Saddam maybe. Stress that MAYBE because the search for WMDs taught us a thing or two about what our allies are willing to do to their intelligence to make it fit the USA's purposes.
Columbian forces have been violating Venezuelan borders to chase rebels, but you STILL don't see Chavez over-reacting and invading anybody.
There is no denying the hypocrisy of attacking Chavez for every little political move he makes while writing off the skeleton's in Bush's closet as misinterpretations of history.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
Then, I think that at this point in time, the fact that demonstrations of these size are allowed shows that Venezuela is not following every example set by Castro. I am reserving judgement on the situation.

OK, I admit it, I have very low impluse control


First of all, Chavez still has not gotten total control over Venezuela, he is still working on it...

castro on the other hand has total control in Cuba, there are neigborhood committies which have communist leaders who report any suspicious activities which might be dangerous to " la revolucion"..... so simply put no large demonstrations happen in Cuba, and if for some miracly some people are able to do one, they are quickly silenced by the methods i mentioned before....


Unable to silence media criticism of his administration's massive corruption and angry with press coverage of his country's general strike, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez is now planning to take control of privately-owned TV stations.
The scheme was announced by top Chavez minister, Felipe Perez Marti, speaking Friday to a small crowd of Chavez-supporters gathered in front of stateowned oil company PDVSA:
" - After the taking of PDVSA, the people will take control of the mass media," promised Perez Marti.
........................
Planning Minister Perez Marti promised that the government would only take control of TV stations who let the opposition speak, and that those journalists who abide by the official government line can still keep their jobs:
" - Mass media which does not transmit biased news and which transmit good news will survive. Those who betray the people's cause can not continue to transmit in Venezuela", he assured.

Government control of the press is already unsurpassed in Venezuela, where the Chavez government can - at any time, and with no prior notification - hijack all TV- and radio signals to broadcast its own messages. They take over all airwaves completely, sometimes for hours.


Excerpted from.
militaresdemocraticos.surebase.com...


London 28.01.05 | This is an evolving post. Venezuelan sources report that the house of journalist Patricia Poleo, located in La Floresta neighbourhood in Caracas, is being raided this morning by the police. It has been reported that Poleo is on her own in the house, her lawyers have not arrived yet.


Excerpted from.
www.vcrisis.com.../200501281152





[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

You miss the pont entirely when you attempt to defend against the thin connections and things taken out of context. The entire point is that if all of these horrible things people say about the Bush administration are mistakes or misinterpretations, how is it that you can somehow devine the motives of Hugo Chavez and attack him in EXACTLY the same way that Bush Bashers attack your favorite president?


BS.... when has Bush taken over all private media because they oppose him?... or when has he said he will take over the media because of their opposition?...

When has any U.S. citizen been taken by government agents when they were just talking to the press about why they won't vote for Bush?....

You are obviously out of your mind to even say that Bush has done what Chavez is doing....

Has Bush taken over private companies and make them part of the state?...

Has president Bush taken over private lands and make them part of the state?....

You are really out of your mind....


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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BTW....how many protesters were from all over the US at the president's inauguration?..... 3,000? 6,000?......

How many protesters have there been against Chavez in one big group?.... 1.2-2 million....

---edited for errors---


[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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A littler bit of background on the poor lady Ms. Patricia Poleo, and her media propaganda against the Chavez government.

They were after all willing partners on the coup by the wealthy business man and friend of Mr. Bush senior, Mr. Carmona.

Mr. Rafael Poleo, is owner of (El Nuevo Pais) and father of Ms. Patricia Poleo, they are personal friends with Gustavo Cisneros and Mr. Carmona.

Mr. Diego Cisneros is also a multimillionaire of cuban origin and owner of Venevision back when the coup planning, It has 70 outlets in 39 countries (9). Cisneros is a friend of George Bush senior: they play golf together and in 2001 the former US president holidayed in Cisneros's Venezuelan property. Both are keen on the privatisation of the PDVSA (10). Otto Reich, US assistant secretary of state for Interamerican affairs, admits to having spoken with Cisneros that night (11).
It seems, to me that Ms. Patricia Poleo is very much into discrediting the Chavez government in favor of higher interest.

For anybody that care to read the links of her, her father and the coup against Chavez this is a link from the time prior to the coup. People if you are interested to know about how the coup was prepared and how Chavez fought for the power for his people here are some of the real story.

I am very surprised that Chavez has allowed the lady to still spread her misinformation.

sf.indymedia.org...



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Misinformation?..... lol....look who is talking...

One question.... How many people in here would like the U.S. government to take their private properties, make them part of the state, and allow people who are living on welfare to live in what was your land?

Anybody?.....do i see any hands?.....



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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More on Ms. Paleo,



"One step forward" was the triumphant headline in El Universal. Journalist Rafael Poleo, who had filed the account of the first meeting of the rebel leaders, took responsibility (with others) for the document setting up the new government. During the afternoon "President" Carmona offered Poleos daughter, Patricia, the post of head of the central information bureau. The decree establishing a dictatorship was countersigned by the employers, the church and the representatives of a pseudo "civil society," and also by Miguel Angel Martinez, on behalf of the media. Daniel Romero, private secretary of the former social-democrat president Carlos Andres Perez, and an employee of the Cisneros group, read it out.

Seems that Ms. Poleo lost more than just the news, and with all her involvement she is still alive and well.

www.usenetarchive.org...



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:43 PM
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Were the massive strikes in Venezuela, which paralyzed the country not only by big corporations but by concerned citizens is also disinformation right Marg?.....

How about the 1.2-2 million people who were on the streets protesting against Chavez...was that disinformation also by the Russian newspaper Pradva?....

[edit on 13-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Muaddib you have to understand that not every thing you see is the real story, I told you my father travels to Venezuela all the time, but I am not going to tell you his business.

All this information is for anybody to see in the internet, sometimes is not good to just stay with one group or source that feed you in their views, is good to see everything from every side.

I can not stay mad at you for to long perhaps because you are a fellow Latino like me.

I just want a littler of more respect. I can get sources from areas you can not imagine.

But we just have to wait and see about Chavez, if he is for real or just a dictator in the making like you said.

Have a good night.



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Hey Marg...see what else does Chavez comes up with against these people....



Venezuela's regime: Shooting the messenger

By Scott | Burtonterrace.blogspot.com
07.01.05 | Venezuelan opposition bloggers, independently financed and edited, are coming under attack in the Venezuelan government run media. Specifically targeted are "Aleksander Boyd in London, Gustavo Coronel in Washington D.C., Daniel Duquenal in Yaracuy, Miguel Octavio in Caracas and A. M. Mora y Leon in the United States of America." The author of a recent article in the government run media service threatens to report these bloggers in what I can only describe as a threat to use the goverment's new suppresive media law to intimidate and stifle legitimate opposition dialogue.


Excerpted from.
www.vcrisis.com.../200501071806



posted on Feb, 13 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Hey Marg...see what else does Chavez comes up with against these people....



Have you search if they are conected to Ms. Paleo and her family? I will run a search and see what I come out with, don't get mad at me if is not good. ok.



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