The Computer An Artificial Utility

a reply to: Edumakated

Is that necessarily a bad thing though? Before the computer, we were unable to function without huge stacks of paper detailing what is and was going on.

The computer is performing those same tasks that all the paper documents did, it's merely doing so more efficiently.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: intrptr

I don't bank, vote or text, I don't even own a 'pooter.

But I'm addicted to this one, how else am I going to find out the truth?

What will you do when you find "the truth"?

that nothing begets nothing? if we asked god, and he told us. the answer is nothing.. we'd expire.

back to cat videos...

I feel computers have become an extension of ourselves and an extra-sensory appendage that further connects us all cross the globe.....moving to a single hive mind that will one day make it easier to control us, haha...I kid?

Computers do make learning better in the sense of convenience, acceleration and offering a plethora of material and sources at our fingertips. People are able to research and educate them selves better, and imo education is key to our future. Inevitably computers increase the pace of humanity's evolution, for better or worse, but hey we're getting there faster these days.

At the same time, I fear computers may move us into more sedentary positions, bringing the world to us instead of getting us out there to experience it. I hope not to become pod people at some point,living through avatars and residing exclusively in cyber space.

a reply to: DBCowboy

^^ This fuzzy bunny sure seems to need them!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
www.debate.org...

An interesting link about a debate on if we really need computers.

I'll open it to you all.

Do we need computers?

I use mine to shop online, check bank accounts, post stupid stuff and opinions on websites, check in with old military buddies, teach my son.

That's it.

I could go actual shopping.
My bank is a 5 minute drive, plus my financial advisor is in the same building.
A phone call would connect me with my old pals.
Libraries and books would serve to teach my son.

And who really gives a crap what I say?

Do we really need computers or have we just gotten lazy? We use our phones for videos, games, and calculators.

We have a vast amount of knowledge at our fingertips, yet we watch cat videos.

Our wisdom, in my opinion, has decreased.

We have grown dependent on our little computer boxes. We have walled ourselves off under the pretense of connecting more. We have more knowledge but less wisdom.

We have become smart monkeys with shinier tools. And all we do if have a better way to fling cyber poo at each other.


I remember a time before computers. Dinosaurs ruled the earth, people died of the consumption, horse and buggies were the main modes of transportation, and we burned witches at the stake.


Has the world become better with computers?

We still fight wars. Diseases still run rampant. Children still go hungry. People still die.

Sure, we can see more, "care" more. Until the next disaster or the next lion gets killed or the next refugee looks sad.

But has it bettered us?

Are we better? Have we evolved?

Are we better off?

Things are easier. But identity theft is a worry now. Hackings, scams, (still waiting on that 10 mil from the Prince in Nigeria), and opinions rule the bandwidths.

If I added up all the time that I had used on the computer constructively, it'd be about 15 minutes/week.

The rest is personal. Fluff. Things that don't matter much.

Yeah, a bit hypocritical, writing this down on a computer and spreading it about the bandwidths of cyber space.

*shrugs*

C'est la vie!

I use computers to learn. I use computers at work every day to do my job. Using computers and machines I can do in one day what a team of people would take a week to do. I program for fun, using my computer to create things from nothing. It's a medium that can give life to pretty much any idea I have. I use it to make and record music I would otherwise need to spend thousands of dollars to do. I use it to speak to people from all over the world by doing so I've gotten to see and learn about a small part of daily life in places of the world I will never get to go. Computers have given me access to things I, as someone who does not come from a which background and makes only enough to live and save a bit, would never have been able to do if I was born 20 years earlier.
Computers have allowed entirely new forms of art to be created, they allow people around the world to collaborate and share with anyone else around the world.

Computers give any person who takes the time to learn how, the freedom to access and do so many things they otherwise wouldn't. Just because you and others don't use them to their full potential doesn't mean millions of others don't. It equalizes people. It gives everyone the same opportunity. Anyone that has access to a computer can use it to better their lives anywhere in the world. My opportunities in life have greatly improved because of computers. Even while between jobs I've been able to make enough of a living doing work with computers that I've never had to be on welfare and been able to keep a roof over my head. My computer contains years and years of work, school and personal things I've spent time creating or working on that have made my life better in some way.

Even now I work in a trade I never would have gotten into without my computer knowledge or if computer aided technology hadn't started being used in this industry. Because of that, I also get to learn the old hand work of the trade. So my computer knowledge has given me a chance to learn a trade thousands of years old.

This is old but I suggest reading it. Maybe it'll help you understand. Computers are just another medium humans have available to help them create. They just also happen to be one of the most powerful creative mediums in human history.

excelsior.asc.ohio-state.edu...

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Edumakated
Computers in some ways have actually made us dumber. It causes your mind to atrophy imho. Yes, the conveniences of having information at your fingertips are invaluable, but at the same time it makes us really vulnerable and unable to function without a computer.

This is a well studied concept, it has nothing to do with computers specifically and rather has to do with storing information. Before people could read and write, they remembered stories, documents, etc... much better. With written storage memories declined. A quick example here (which you mentioned) in recent years is phone numbers, it wasn't all that long ago that we remembered hundreds of numbers for people. Now we just press a name to quick dial.

That doesn't necessarily mean we're dumber though. Outside of Jeopardy contestants, do we measure intelligence by the trivia a person knows? I would argue that rather than spending the time memorizing something, and suffering the consequences of not memorizing it, our brainpower has been freed up for other endeavors.

No doubt we are smarter in some ways, but I think dumber in that we are losing our ability to function WITHOUT technology.

Exactly.

How smart are we, really, if we HAVE to rely on tech to perform?

i like reading interesting threads, commenting sometimes and occasionally watching videos on youtube. not much else i do with computers. i could easily live without them. i preferred life and society before the march of the internet and home computers.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
How smart are we, really, if we HAVE to rely on tech to perform?

Before computers we relied on paper. Paper is still a technology.

Computers simply allow us to write down more, and to access it faster.

Is your position that society is better off if none of us could write?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
How smart are we, really, if we HAVE to rely on tech to perform?

Before computers we relied on paper. Paper is still a technology.

Computers simply allow us to write down more, and to access it faster.

Is your position that society is better off if none of us could write?

No. I'll concede the point that we have always relied on technology. I guess I'm just questioning the efficacy of the new tech.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Edumakated
Computers in some ways have actually made us dumber. It causes your mind to atrophy imho. Yes, the conveniences of having information at your fingertips are invaluable, but at the same time it makes us really vulnerable and unable to function without a computer.

This is a well studied concept, it has nothing to do with computers specifically and rather has to do with storing information. Before people could read and write, they remembered stories, documents, etc... much better. With written storage memories declined. A quick example here (which you mentioned) in recent years is phone numbers, it wasn't all that long ago that we remembered hundreds of numbers for people. Now we just press a name to quick dial.

That doesn't necessarily mean we're dumber though. Outside of Jeopardy contestants, do we measure intelligence by the trivia a person knows? I would argue that rather than spending the time memorizing something, and suffering the consequences of not memorizing it, our brainpower has been freed up for other endeavors.

No doubt we are smarter in some ways, but I think dumber in that we are losing our ability to function WITHOUT technology.

Exactly.

How smart are we, really, if we HAVE to rely on tech to perform?

Go back far enough, humans didn't have clothes or houses. We made them, and I quite like my house. We used to have to eat things raw, then some boffin discovered fire. They all wanted fries with that. And lugging all that cooked meat around to your fancy house, with your fancy pants, was made a lot easier with the invention of the wheel. All because of that pesky abacus...



We dont lose as much as we gain.

a reply to: badw0lf

Tech is good. I like cooked foods, electricity, running water, toilets that flush.

I will caveat.

But do we, should we embrace all tech simply because it's new or easy?

When is it too much?

Where do we draw the line?

Ah the good ol' days of doing accounting with a pencil, eraser, and an abacus.

The good ol' days of the one-write system and 20 different ledgers and sub-ledgers to write in all your column totals and line items manually by pencil.

Yesiree... Adding up each column manually only to discover that you accidentally reversed two numbers somewhere in one of those gazillion columns or line items... and spending the next 6 hours trying to find where your silly little error is.

Taking 12 hours to do something (that now only takes an hour)... and charging your customers by the hour.

Yup the good ol' days indeed, I remember them well.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
No. I'll concede the point that we have always relied on technology. I guess I'm just questioning the efficacy of the new tech.

In that case, I would list a few major outcomes of computers:
1. They've massively lowered the cost of goods.
2. They've increased our access to entertainment.
3. They've increased our access to knowledge.
4. They've reduced the workload of society.

Remember this above all else, computers are not magic. Everything they do, they do because of algorithms that have stated a process to perform something. Computers are able to go through the steps in a process a trillion times faster than humans though (maybe even more than that), and that means we can get way more work done.

Sure, society could get by without computers, but it would be 1920's and 1930's society. Modern society would not exist.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Where do we draw the line?

i'll pass on the implants that put me directly online, i guess.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
But do we, should we embrace all tech simply because it's new or easy?

When is it too much?

Where do we draw the line?

It's never too much. What's wrong with things being easy? Is suffering a virtue?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
But do we, should we embrace all tech simply because it's new or easy?

When is it too much?

Where do we draw the line?

It's never too much. What's wrong with things being easy? Is suffering a virtue?

Evolution occurs when outside influences (stresses) impact an organism(s).

a reply to: DBCowboy

Why would we draw a line? Why stop? There's still a future that's all connected.

IMO, the human race needs to go to space and colonize to survive. To do that, we need computers.

a reply to: DBCowboy

How is technology not an evolution? I would argue that technology occurs when we have a problem to solve (a stress). And technology manifests within a couple years, not thousands as evolution requires.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
But do we, should we embrace all tech simply because it's new or easy?

When is it too much?

Where do we draw the line?

It's never too much. What's wrong with things being easy? Is suffering a virtue?

You made the argument that sometimes sacrificing mastery is a good thing because tech does it for you.

But what things should we still master for ourselves? At what point do you look at yourself and say, "Sure, I can look that up or sure I can pay that takeout to make it for me, but maybe I ought to master those skills for myself ... just in case."

What if you ever needed to know those things because you didn't have access to technology or the specialized networks we enjoy?